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Re: RE : Re: RE : Re: Linux Magazin Germany, affecting Debian's image?!

On Tue, Jul 18, 2006 at 12:27:04AM +0300, Radu-Cristian FOTESCU wrote:
> You are not in court. Neither of us has the right to declare the other
> is wrong.

> I am *not* the only one -- I am only one with such a blunt language.
> Steve Langasek just replied at Mon, 17 Jul 2006 12:56:16 -0700:
> «This does not mean those Debian developers have free reign to use the
> trademark however they wish.  Debian developers acting independently should
> absolutely be expected to honor the trademark the same as anyone else;
> having your key in the keyring doesn't give you a free pass to dilute
> Debian's trademarks to the project's detriment.»

I did not make any claims about whether the DVDs in question violated Debian
trademarks.  I only disagreed with the position I thought Martin was taking,
that the involvement of individual DDs would somehow bless an otherwise
illicit use of the Debian trademark.

> Well, unofficial, but... "die deutsche Mitglieder des Debian-Projekts
> liebevoll zusammengestellt haben."

> I mean... made by German members of the Debian Project, huh?

So?  That's a true statement.  Trademark law (in sensible jurisdictions)
doesn't prohibit making true statements, and this true statement does not
imply that the images have the blessing of the Debian Project at large.

> Because I suppose that if I made up my own "modified Debian" and I'm
> sticking it to a magazine and label it "Debian Sarge, enhanced", I could
> be sued for that. I SHOULD BE SUED FOR THAT.

If it were presented as "Debian Sarge, enhanced", I agree that there seem to
be grounds for considering this a trademark infringement because it uses the
Debian mark to unduly promote a separate product.  But it is not my
understanding that this is how the DVD is advertised.

> > Please provide legal references for the "responsibilities" that you
> > persist in claiming someone has. To whom do you think those
> > "responsibilities" are owed?

> If you don't care about your brand, you'll lose the respect of your
> partners. Companies like RHAT are defending vigurously their brand. It
> seems Debian has more lax approaches. Definitely, *their* lawyers are
> better than *yours*.

*What* lawyers?  Debian is not a company.  It doesn't have lawyers.  What
fantasy world are you living in?

SPI, the umbrella corporation for Debian, has a single lawyer working with
them on a pro bono basis who currently has a backlog of questions before
him.  This is not an ideal situation, but it's also not a reason to foam at
the mouth.  Indeed, as near as I can tell from your other messages here, the
real issue here is that you have an axe to grind with the particular
publisher who is making these DVDs available.

> No, really, you can't afford to have various editions sticking around,
> labeled just about the same, with the risk of confusing them. Or you'll
> just take the risk of losing users.

So far, you've been sufficiently belligerent and rude in pursuit of your
argument that brand is more important than substance that I can only
conclude that you and Red Hat deserve each other.

Steve Langasek                   Give me a lever long enough and a Free OS
Debian Developer                   to set it on, and I can move the world.
vorlon@debian.org                                   http://www.debian.org/

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