Re: Debian, lists and discrimination
On Sat, Aug 07, 2004 at 04:32:06PM -0500, Manoj Srivastava wrote:
> On Sat, 7 Aug 2004 21:55:27 +1000, Matthew Palmer <firstname.lastname@example.org> said:
> > On Fri, Aug 06, 2004 at 05:50:46PM -0700, Jonathan Walther wrote:
> >> On Sat, Aug 07, 2004 at 10:41:33AM +1000, Matthew Palmer wrote:
> >> >>What is left unexamined in all these discussions is why Debian
> >> >>(as a project) should be doing anything to tackle inequalities?
> >> >
> >> >Because there's a whole pile of potential contributors out there
> >> >that we're almost certainly driving away.
> >> The burden of evidence is on you. I'd like to see your proofs.
> > How about statements from the people who have decided not to
> > participate because of the culture? How many would convince you?
> On the flip side, how about contributions from people who may
> not participate if the culture turned too touchy feely and
> sickeningly sweet?
Yep, I think it behoves us to consider that as well. As I said in a
(http://lists.debian.org/debian-project/2004/08/msg00053.html), we should
examine what changes to the project's culture need to take place, and
whether those would be net-beneficial. It might turn out that the
rough-and-tumble, highly competitive and confrontational nature of the
project is what creates the excellence we have, and the contributions we
would gain as a result would not remedy that. If so, we would be crazy to
However, I don't think we have to turn the project into corn syrup in order
to gain the willing contribution of those we are unknowingly hostile to. I,
for one, would be unlikely to continue to contribute if we had to constantly
mince words or participate in group hugs with every bug report. Luckily, I
don't think we're going to have to go that far. What has to be done is
still to be worked out in large part, however, so we shouldn't go making
assumptions either way about end-game effects, I guess.
> Don't ignore the flip side