[Date Prev][Date Next] [Thread Prev][Thread Next] [Date Index] [Thread Index]

Re: Debian, lists and discrimination

On Sat, Aug 07, 2004 at 02:42:17PM +0100, MJ Ray wrote:
> On 2004-08-07 13:11:55 +0100 Matthew Palmer <mpalmer@debian.org> wrote:
> >So you think that changing our culture to be less confrontational 
> >would be
> >beneficial to encouraging participation by multiple groups?  
> >Excellent.
> Yes, but I'd like to see metrics for this and the data gathered. We 
> can all act as we think, but it would be better to see the effect in 
> an obvious and agreeable way. I strongly suspect these are going to be 
> general across demographic splits and don't understand special-casing 
> women so early.

Women have been special-cased because they've stood up to be counted. 
They're an easily recognisable demographic who have said "we have these

> So far as I have seen, debian women's acts seem sexist and likely to 
> discourage participation by men. Is a bug in the aims or a bug in the 
> presentation?

I'm pretty confident it's presentation.  Mostly, I think it's a different
form of confrontational behaviour, expressed as a reaction to attack.  Not
very different to krooger's quasi-religious bangings-on in substance, merely
a difference of form.

> >I think we're probably under-represented amongst those groups, too, 
> >and I
> >think that if there's anyone who feels that it may be to the project's
> >detriment they should try to work out the reasons why and try to 
> >rectify
> >those if appropriate.
> Later in the message you wrote that we probably miss out, so I assume 
> you are one of "anyone who feels ...". Is only addressing women now 
> trying to work out the reasons why for those groups too?

I'm addressing the problem of women in Debian because I have experience with
women in "non-traditional" roles, and because they have taken some of the
initiative in starting things off.  I also believe that the culture shifts
that might take place could be beneficial in a larger scope.

To address your question more directly, in a limited way, addressing the
problems some women have expressed about Debian will hopefully address the
problems that *some* other groups have.

- Matt

Reply to: