Re: OFF-TOPIC: debian-powerpc or debian-boot for d-i issues [was:
On Sat, Apr 21, 2007 at 12:35:58PM +0200, Wolfgang Pfeiffer wrote:
> Hi All
>
> On Fri, Apr 20 2007, at 22:46 +0200, Sven Luther wrote:
> > On Fri, Apr 20, 2007 at 09:42:00PM +0200, Wolfgang Pfeiffer wrote:
> > > Hi All
> > >
> > > On Thu, Apr 19 2007, at 23:08 +0200, Sven Luther wrote:
> > > > On Thu, Apr 19, 2007 at 05:40:51PM +0200, Wolfgang Pfeiffer wrote:
> > > > > On Thu, Apr 19 2007, at 15:05 +0200, Sven Luther wrote:
>
> > > Sven, please: stick to the whole truth. They didn't kick you just for
> > > different opinions on software matters. One reason they did that was
> > > obviously the fact - if I'm not very much mistaken - that you were
> > > threatening one person physically:
> >
> > On the 27th of marsch, while my mother was dying in el salvador, i went
> > to read debian-boot to change my ideas, and forwarded to debian-boot a
> > single mail from i don't remember who who had problems with d-i giving
> > my best advice, which was not so good after all. Within days, i was
> > removed from the d-i team, and my svn commit access removed, without
> > they even telling me, and i discovered this fact a full month later,
> > when, after the funeral and other issues which had to be handled, i
> > started again working on debian, more specifically the apus and prep
> > ports.
>
> I think I've heard this side of the story, or sides similar to this
> one, again and again: ad nauseam, I must say. But I don't remember
> having ever read about the threats against Jonas when reading your
> comments, or at least not on this list. And these threats - believe it
> or not - were crucial when they decided to kick you. Read again this,
> please:
They had decided to kick me out anyway, because i dared candidate as
DPL. The decision was taken by the two DAMs, regardless of a 10-1
developpers being strongly against the expulsion. And i spoke with James
Troup at FOSDEM the day after they decided to relaunch this, and he said
nothing to me. Nothing. This is just mafioso politicks, where some
in-power folk felt threatened by me presenting myself as DPL candidate.
> > > http://lists.debian.org/debian-devel/2006/03/msg00620.html
> >
> > Bullshit, bad english is the cause of this,
>
> I really hope so. Tho' I have serious doubts it was just bad
> English. At any rate: you cannot simply point the finger to others
> after this and ignore the speech you've given.
What speach ? I have written a single comment on irc, under extreme
frustration and anger, and it was taken out of proportion and
immediately made a huge mess, not mentioning that even some of the
expulsers like Manoj and Frans gave me various "FUCK YOU" on irc.
Furthermore, the original message which i believe is the one you cite,
contains two obvious lies. I *NEVER* was rude to a user or to linux
ustream, as Andres Dilinger has claimed. The same kind of irregularities
and outright lies where present in the more recent events, so what i am
faced here is just part of a grand plan to get ride of me, which started
by frans, when he in fall 2005 started to provoke me at the least
occasion, and by some people showeling out lies and diffamation about
me, which ended in my expulsion last month.
All this because i dared say that some things where not perfect in d-i,
and wanted to propose ideas for bettering it, which was seen as a "lack
of respect" from the d-i leadership.
> > my intentions was to tell jonas, that i hope we didn't meet again
> > in public, since after 4 days of trying calmly and constructively to
> > solve the RC bug at cause with this problem, he managed to get me in
> > such a state of frustration and anger, that i doubt i would have
> > been able to control myself in RL, (and would probably thus go away
> > from him and stop to try to solve the issue, like i did when i meet
> > him in erkelenz and he explained me during half an hour that no, we
> > should not look at the RC bug which was causing the kernel to be
> > uninstallable for months on the pegasos).
> >
> > History tells that i was right about the bug in question,
>
> Working together with others isn't just a matter of being right or
> wrong in technical issues. I believe you know that. It is on a large
> scale determined how persons can cope personally with each other.
Sure, and the fact that i had problems with a few handful of people;
who themselves are known to be problematic to work with (Frans, Manoj,
Jonas, to name only a few), should give a hint that i am notthe only one
involved in this here.
> > > And under such circumstances, Sven, in nearly every professional
> > > environment you would have had 5 minutes to pack. Maximum.
> >
> > In a professional environment, this guys, would have been removed long
> > ago, and have no chance to cause further damage to his motivated
> > co-workers. In a professional environment half the asocial people
> > composing debina and with delussions of power, would have been sent
> > packing years before i ever was a problem, and i would have been able to
> > sue for harrasment for what the d-i team did against me, and i would
> > have gotten damage money when they chose to expulse me like they did
> > earlier this month.
> >
> > > So if you really want to talk about history, tell us just the whole
> >
> > I have always told the whole truth to all who would listen, and i take
> > it as an extreme insult to my honour that you dare call me a liar like
> > this, and i would hope you take this back quickly.
>
> Slow down. Please. I didn't call you a liar. And I didn't even think
> about that. Instead I asked you to tell us the whole truth - and I
> should have added: "and not just some part of it".
By saying that, you conveyed the idea that i was not saying the truth.
This is especially painful to me, because i am, contrary to the other
players in this drama, an honest person, and *ALWAYS* told the truth as
best i could.
> > Well, possibly, but have i ever given something else here than good and
> > honest advice ? Was i ever less than helpful to people asking
> > question ?
>
> I never doubted your seriousness when helping others here. And I still
> don't do that.
But other did, and even calumniated me over it.
> > Thruthful and blunt sometimes maybe.
>
> Being blunt - if it just means to stick to reality as it is when
> reporting it - can help.
Except when people don't want to hear it, and prefer to fire on the
messanger, rather than face reality.
> > And sorry if this is a sore point for me, but i think you would
> > understand my position too. (and ask me if you want pointers to what
> > really happened, i will send them to you in private).
>
> I don't want to have this whole story again and again in my inbox. The
> details being publicly available are more than enough.
Apparently not.
> Instead - if I may say - it might help if you get things straight with
> the folks actually involved. Jonas, Andres. Whoever.
No chance, they won, and are not interested, and both Anthony Towns,
acting as DPL last year, and more recently the DAMs decided to give them
full reason, and i am now suspsended for a year.
I have since october/november of last year multiplied the offers of
reconciliation, upto and including an in-person meeting at FOSDEM in
late february, but Frans Pop walked by me without even returning my
greeting, and Holger told me debian would be better without you, already
knowing before me that the new expulsion request was ongoing, and James
Troup, who was to be one of the two judges, didn't even bother to
mention it to me, even though the DAMs had sent the expulsion letter
(which got lost in the debian.org mail greylisting or something a day
before).
So, no, i have no option left in debian, there is no chance that this
gets ever solved, as long as the other party is given full right in this
by the powers who be, and don't acknowledge that maybe the fault is
shared.
Friendly,
Sven Luther
>
> HTH
>
> Best Regards
>
> Wolfgang
>
> --
> Wolfgang Pfeiffer: /ICQ: 286585973/ + + + /AIM: crashinglinux/
> http://profiles.yahoo.com/wolfgangpfeiffer
>
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