Re: GWorkspace doesn't work in Sarge
This is getting wildely offtopic for -powerpc, so please reply
privately in order not to annoy the list subscribers.
brian wrote:
>
> > This is true, but is irrelevant to the OP's problem.
>
> You seem to have a much different perspective on this than i
> have. mine was that GnuStep needed and got a major overhaul this
> year, which is will allow a real desktop now to develop that is
> presently in a prototype stage with etoile' being the leading
> contender (the others simply not not showing much more than the old
> gworkspace/windowmaker results, or/and not getting adequate
> developer interest)
Well, with every release of the main GNUstep libraries there are major
changes, especially in the past two years. It is true that the Etoile
project is closer to a desktop than the other efforts.
> > This is not true. I'm not a co-maintainer for gwrokspace.app,
> > that's why I suggested filing a bug. Most probably there will be
> > people who can help or at least try to locate the issue.
>
> yes, i am sorry but it is. there is besides the issue of gnustep big
> change is that sarge will soon be old stable which with big change
> in etch again makes asking superhuman demands from a limited group
> of people. unless suddenly debian were to take a much more friendly
> stance on developing new developers and/or officially supporting
> backports -- i don't think though it has the resources to do either.
But this suggests that stable is not supported -- I don't agree with
you. The right place to obtain support is via the BTS or at least the
pkg-gnustep mailing list. powerpc is just one of the arches where
GNUstep runs.
> > Basically there is a reason why people run stable so advising them
> > to upgrade to testing does not seem to be a good idea. Last time
> > I tried (that was about a year ago, I think) GNUstep in Sarge was
> > in a pretty good shape.
>
> of course that is so. and i said before i kept a copy, at least a
> mixed sarge/testing. actually i do keep a copy of sarge and use it
> often enough to update it and test it. i sometimes think if you came
> from a windows background you may find a much lower level of quality
> adequate. however, mine was bsd, nextstep, and mac, and i just find
> MS/W standards to be completely unacceptable.
I find the standards of any proprietary system unacceptable.
We were using stable at work (including GNUstep) but migrated all
workstations to testing 1 year before the release of Sarge. I will
keep an Etch machine to support my packages and I believe that the
other maintainers have at least one Sarge installation to support
theirs.
> > We would like to know about these problems, please. Window Maker
> > is the preferred window manager for GNUstep both by upstream and
> > the Debian maintainers.
>
> this is like saying that MS/windows is preffered for C++. it is not
> consistent, as windowmaker has nothing to do with gnustep, it is
> just a look (and not much more).
According to GNUstep's homepage and the vast majority of upstream
developers wmaker is the preferred window manager. Certainly it has
nothing to do with GNUstep.
> IMHO WM/GW are not really fixable, in fact they are simply
> absolete. if there is some political force once again that is
> seeking to maintain the status quo, it is just going to create
> further problems.
Well, if you use GWorkspace's desktop feature (and/or the tabbed
shelf) I agree that it is not very consistent. There is no political
force, but bear in mind that Etoile is not part of GNUstep and not the
official desktop, at least according to the core (GNUstep) developers.
> i did say i have not been able to work with it lately, didn't I ??
> you seem to have taken out my context. but i would not call it
> vaporware like the others, if you would look at a version from the
> last 3 months, it too has grown in a very major way and that is half
> the reason i have not been keeping up with it besides waiting for
> debian/etch gnustep to stabilize.
For a pretty long time Etoile has been "a bunch of screenshots" --
these are not my words. Of course, we will introduce Etoile in Debian
and will support it as soon as it is feasible.
> no, it is skinnable. you are confusing it with chameleon as it seems
> most people confuse windowmaker with gnustep.
No, I am not confusing anything. For someone that has been using
GNUstep for years, Etoile looks weird. Others might like it, of
course.
> half of linux is either incomplete or doesn't work "properly",
Linux is just a kernel, I guess you mean GNU/Linux here.
> unless you go to one of the more commercial distros, and/or put
> yourself in the middle mainstream, where it seems to me you are
> missing the point (may as well use mac os X way before that, where
> you can get most of debian anyway and gnustep besides via fink)
I've never used Muck OS and will never use it. I have a few OldWorld
Macs and the only mission of their Muck OS is to boot GNU/Linux.
If you consider Etoile the "true" GNUstep desktop, that is fine. I
don't feel any hostility towards that project. However, I doubt that
it will ever become "blessed" because most of the GNUstep developers
do not like the direction it has taken. Of course, in the Free World
there is diversity and everyone is free to work on whatever he/she
likes.
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