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Re: Why yaboot is NOT for oldworld macs, Oldworld owners please read! (was Re: StarMax and yaboot...)



On Wed, Jun 07, 2000 at 08:22:59AM -0400, Adam C Powell IV wrote:

> > machines. fortunatly you don't need to set the boot-device at all on
> > newworlds if you use IDE disks (the defaults will do just fine)
> 
> Right, and newworlds don't use quik, right?  So what's the probem?  Is there a way to
> determine whether a machine needs quik or yaboot, and act accordingly?

no quik is worthless on newworlds since its based on a boot sector,
which OF refuses to load on newworld hardware.  so instead we trick OF
into thinking my yaboot bootstrap partition is bootable.  

normally on newworld (if you follow the directions i give, like most
people dont) your on a IDE disk and the default settings work fine (by
the way OF does its boot process) 

but i still would really like to have a way to set nvram settings and
to know what to set them too, why?  some people have lots of money to
throw around and buy scsi disks ;-) and when you do that you need to
configure OF, since it does not look for scsi disks very well.  

BenH has told me that he has fixed /dev/nvram so it really does work
now, but nvsetenv is unaware of the new nvram format (which differs
from oldworld's) so all it does is corrupt your nvram.  there is
however a new tool `nvtool' which he tells me knows about neworld
nvram format.  i would prefer for nvtool's code to be merged into
nvsetenv just so we don't have this mess of differing userland utils
for oldworld/newworld (its annoying enough explaining when you should
and should not use yaboot or quik.....)

> > SuSE wrote an extremely obfuscated shell script to try and figure this out,
> 
> Cool!  And SuSE's a good company that releases things like this as OSS/DFSG compliant,
> right?  Where can I get it and test it on my machine?  (Nothing obvioous on the web

yes they are a well behaved Free software company AFAICS, BenH also
tells me that the obfuscated shell script is obsolete and they are
working on a more sane solution, probably involving kernel changes (to
add something useful to the /proc mess (why don't we have a /kern
instead? then leave /proc to *gasp* processes!)  and a new userland
utility (i guess).  (Ben just got some tidbits off irc, not much detail)

> site, and the support database search gives nothing for "quik" or "open firmware".)  Is
> it part of the quik rpm?  There's one in:
> http://download.sourceforge.net/pub/mirrors/suse/suse/ppc/update/BETA/

that is probably it, i still have it around i think, i looked at there
misguided suseboot thing once, and found it there.  

> 
> I'm confused- does your G3 use quik?  (Is there such thing as an "Oldworld G3"?)

you misunderstand, the suse obfuscated shell script was written for
newworld macs, i have no idea if it would work on oldworld (i doubt
it) it never came up with the right answers on mine anyway.

and as to your other questions:

yes there is an oldworld G3, they are also known as beige G3s becuase
they are in a beige box.  

newworld macs do not use quik, i do not use quik, quik does not work
becuase newworld OF is broken in such a way that quik will never
work.  newworld macs should use ybin and yaboot instead.  (yaboot is
the actual boot loader, ybin is the userland install utility to
install and set it up on a bootstrap partition (which is a required
kludge to work around newworld OF) ybin is the /sbin/quik for yaboot)

> Thanks for the clarifications!

if you could call it that, i fear i may have confused you further
now ;-)

> -Adam P.
> 
> 

-- 
Ethan Benson
http://www.alaska.net/~erbenson/

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