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Re: task & skills



On 00-12-03 Lenart Janos wrote:

> On Sun, Dec 03, 2000 at 11:17:37AM +0100, Christian Kurz wrote:
> > > On Sat, 2 Dec 2000, Gergely Risko wrote:

> > Well, I can tell you, that if I see some really lazy Developers in the
> > future, I will complaining about them, even on -devel if it's needed. As
> > I sometimes have said: We need way to deal with those lazy developers,
> > that also ignore mails. And if there's no way to get them motivated to
> > do more for debian, then I vote for excluding them.

> Lazy Developers (developers who doesn't do anything, nor packaging, nor 
> documentating, nor programming, nor administering the Debian machines, 
> nor processing applicants) should be expelled from the Debian Project?

What do you want else to do with them? Having 1000 developers according
to our database/accounts with only 50 really active and 300 doing
normal work and 700 just being proud of having a @debian.org address? (I
know this figures are not right, but I choose them to give you an idea,
what could happen, if we don't work against this.). I think this won't
give us any advantage, but instead give us the disadvantage of being the
distribution with the highest number of developes and very low quality
still.

> Some questions about it:
> - Is that good if someone does his work, just because he have to 
> (because if he doesn't he will be expelled)? I don't think so forcing 
> Developers to work is an applyable way.

You forget at this point, that you joined debian, because you decided
for yourself, that you want to contribute something back to the
distribution that you are using. You made the decision that you have
enough time to work on package or do other stuff. And so I'm assuming
that this is still true after you have been processed and have a
@debian.org-address. People just being active until they have
@debian.org-address are something that we don't need in our project. So
they don't get forced to do some work, but reminded of doing the things,
that they decided to do on their own will. 

> - Who should judge over other Developers? I think (I hope) most of 
> those 'lazy Developers' have some good reason to be lazy, so every case 
> is different, and it's very hard to judge.

What reasons? We have db.debian.org with a field to add some comments.
We have mailing-lists to tell other developers, if you are to busy or if
you need some help. Just being lazy without sending any mail to any of
those lists or using db.debian.org to inform other developers. And also
ignoring emails isn't very helpful either to show that your are very
busy. Even if I have to do a lot of work for my company, I will be able
to send a short email to one of those lists, telling the other
developers, that I'm currently busy and will have more time in the
future again. It's aboslutely bad behaviour to be lazy and ignore mails,
especially since mail is the main communciation method for us. So, there
are ways to tell other developers why you are currently lazy. If you
don't use them, I have the feeling, that this people should either soon
change this behaviour or fully stop there work for debian. Have you any
idea how frustrating it can be do to QA work, like fixing bugs, and then
trying to contact the maintainer without getting any response? And if
you step over their head and do a NMU, some of those developers also
stat flaming your for doing this. This is absolutely no acceptable
behaviour and I think we need a solution to deal with such cases.

> I think it's better if they doesn't do anything, then they are doing 
> their work because they have to. If they have to they will do their job 
> badly (not caring bugs, approving anyone, etc). I heard that the good 
> psyhology[1] is not to punish but giving reward(s). A good example is 
> nm.debian.org's leaderboard, and similars. Maybe, a more matarial one 
> is to give CDs for free to the Developers who are working (for and in 
> the Project!). It's not so hard to see who is working and who is just 
> having a pretty email address.

Giving out materials like you suggest is absolutely no good idea, since
when you joined the project, you acknowledge to work for Debian on a
free basis, without any material reward, just being proud of being a
part of debian and producing high quality debian software packages that
will be used by many users. If you need material rewards, to do some
work for debian, then you have joined the wrong project.

Ciao
     Christian
-- 
          Debian Developer and Quality Assurance Team Member
    1024/26CC7853 31E6 A8CA 68FC 284F 7D16  63EC A9E6 67FF 26CC 7853

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