Re: Astronaut inclusion in Debian-med.
Am Dienstag 20 Juli 2010, 17:06:02 schrieb Andreas Tille:
Just my 2 cents on this. I am with the GNUmed project and we have
similar issues.
> On Tue, Jul 20, 2010 at 08:40:10AM -0500, Ignacio Valdes wrote:
> > > there id no rules file, the control file is invalid and the postinst is
> > > dealing with "/opt". I have no idea what to do to get a Debian package
> > > from the files you provided.
> >
> > How about the bash script called build_gtm.sh that is at the link above?
>
> Well, we probably have different opinions about what a Debian package
> is. In "my world" a Debian package is something where you compile a
> program from source, install it to a temporary directory and build a
> package from there. Your script just does the last part somehow.
> Finally the resulting Debian package has to pass a lintian test.
>
What we as upstream don't understand is why in bloody hell there are different
package types for different distributions. But so it is. Once you accept that
fact you as upstream want to have nicely integrated packages so the fit well
with a Linux distribution. Even if I dislike the fact that there is rpm, deb
and whatnot I have come to accept that is makes sense to package for each
distribution. One reason is that a lot of errors are prevented by the tools
used for building the package and second is that that way the files go to the
correct location for that distribution. Let me tell you if you want your
software to be used by many linux users (if you target them) then Debian is
your best choice. That way you will get into Ubuntu as well. Ubuntu is one of
the most visible distributions out there. While packaging is done for Debian
(which we very much welcome) most reports we get from people on Ubuntu.
I personally package for multiple rpm based distributions but I am not aware
of a substantial userbase. Long story short. If you want to see you software
included in Debian and Ubuntu you need proper packages.
> > How would it deal with rpms then?
>
> We were talking about building a package which is provided from the
> Debian mirror as official Debian package which will be provided on
> official Debian CDs^WDVDs^WBlueray disks. There is no need at all to
> provide an RPM package from there because Debian does not provide any
> RPMs.
Exactly. If you want RPM packages for Fedora/Redhead Enterprise or
openSUSE/SUSE Enterprise you need proper packages for these. You willl have to
use their tools (e.g. openSUSE build service) and you can carry over a lot of
nifty stuff from Debian packages.
>
> > The above would seem to heavily tie
> > it to Debian tools while not helping with rpm?
>
> Well, it is the *Debian* Med project, isn't it? It has this name
> because it is a Debian Pure Blend (=*internal* Debian project). It was
> never intended to support RPMs and I wonder why you assume it should.
> This does not mean that we would not seek for contact to Fedora or
> OpenSuse and there are actually two mailing list which have a similar
> goal (but no traffic on this list). I have contacted the people who
> initialised these lists but there was no real response and so the chance
> for cooperation is limited for the moment. There might be chances that
> Fedora or OpenSuse users might profit from our work and I would try to
> support this - but I personally have no idea about RPM.
>
> BTW, I now understand your question about alien: Yes, once you have
> builded a real Debian package you might use alien with good chances
> to get a working RPM package.
>
Your goal should be to get your software into Debian/Ubuntu and RPM-based
distributions. It makes no sense to try to avoid that by using tools which try
to be smart and avoid the double packaging effort.
If you just want packages that might be possible but if you want distributions
to accept these there is no way around it.
Regarding other mailing lists. I am involved in the openSUSE medical project
and the Fedora medical SIG. The Debian-med group is much further in terms of
packaging. The openSUSE medical group has not gained much traction yet and
there is only one packager as far as I know. The Fedora group seems more
active. Both groups have little domain knowledge. That means they are not
neccessarly using the software they create which in turn leads to much less
scratching your own itch and less devotion to packaging.
Debian seems to be most widely know distribution among scientists which is
shown by the number of already packaged scientific/medical software.
> > build_gtm.sh finds out
> > what type of system it is on and builds a deb or rpm accordingly. That
> > way if the whole thing is pulled you just run the script on the type
> > of system it is on and it works.
>
> But this is not intended. If we provide official Debian packages you
> just know on what system you are.
>
If you use the corresponding tools you don't need your script anymore. Just
build proper packages once and let the distributions handle updates. Tell you
what. GNUmed has similar scripts as well. Users will use them to screw you in
the worst way. You will never know exactly what the user's environment is when
they report a bug. I would always go for proper packages.
Different from scientific software where the users (scientist) often have a
lot of computer skills including programming and packaging the medical domain
(your audience) mostly lacks those skills. So your want your software to be as
easily available and installable as possible unless you want to earn a lot on
support :-)
Best regards,
S.Hilbert
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