Bug#973333: lintian.d.o: please add a symlink/redirect to the most recent version
Hi Pierre-Elliott,
On Fri, Nov 6, 2020 at 5:20 AM Pierre-Elliott Bécue <peb@debian.org> wrote:
>
> A technical project consisting of people who may have opinions, even
> some based on non-very-technical aspects.
There are no "non-technical" aspects in my effort to provide the best
possible service, aside from being a nice person, despite your
tendency to insert them. This is a bug report.
> Because I made an assumption on your intents and tried to tell you
> something you don't want to hear, which is that it should stay in Debian
> infra?
The solution provided on the current Debian infrastructure has
performed poorly for a long time (and well before my arrival). There
is nothing untoward about my intentions. The prominence of your
suspicions in your reasoning cannot change it. You are either being
manipulative, or you are trying to provoke a reaction. Either way,
your accusations have no basis.
> Come on, you should accept the idea that other people has
> different opinions than yours and have a right to state these. The
> "it's not technical" argument is not a valid answer.
Again, this is a bug report. Please be your own judge.
> The fact that you are working on a
> project does not mean others can't express concerns and raise their
> voice if they think the decisions you seem to be willing to take are
> bad.
Please explain which of my contributions to Lintian are "bad". I
regularly reverse changes that did not deliver the expected benefits.
Many of Lintian's bug reports are also about changes I made that did
not work. To the best of my ability, I respond timely. I challenge you
to prove otherwise. Your suggestion that I am reluctant to engage with
criticism is unsupported and faise.
My point is further bolstered by this letter. Its writing consumed
valuable time and kept me from contributing in other and probably more
productive ways.
> I'm not coercing you and the way you represent it is your sole
> interpretation, which is a bit scary.
You yourself wrote that you made assumptions about my intentions. (You
offer no details, but they are presumably unbecoming.) Plus, you raise
no technical points. Like it or not, the effect of your messages is to
malign and intimidate.
> I don't have to mention technical concerns to have a right to feel
> ill-at-ease with the idea of seeing lintian.debian.org disappear in
> favour of an externally hosted service. But actually, "it's
> Debian-centric and used by core components, so it's better having it
> in our infrastructure" also is a technical concern.
I agree with you. Unfortunately, the infrastructure provided by DSA is
presently insufficient for the service people expect. (Just look at
this bug.) Your point is therefore hypothetical.
Eventually, I plan to approach DSA with a wishlist for deployment on
Debian hardware. As I stated previously, I am not ready because I am
still experimenting.
> This is what I call a test version.
What an odd point to make! In my first response to this bug, I called
it an experiment. The words mean the same thing.
> DSA delivers machines, what you do of these is your call. See
> nm.debian.org, which is auto-deployed when we release on master et al.
Thank you for your thoughtful reference. I previously watched Enrico's
talk [1] with great interest and also multiple times. Unfortunately,
the mechanism does not cover the automatic installation of runtime
prerequisites and is probably not helpful for Lintian (although it may
be for the website).
Please also keep in mind that the Lintian maintainers try to produce
data for lintian.d.o with released versions (for easier comparison
with the BTS). Upon reflection, Debian's packaging system is ideally
suited to solve those issues.
[1] https://debconf18.debconf.org/talks/71-autodeploy-from-salsa/
> Surely, that excludes tracker.debian.org, wiki.debian.org,
> nm.debian.org, ddpo.debian.org, udd.debian.org, …
All I can say is, it was the response I got.
> I can't see how and why DSA would forbid you to have a new website set
> in production on lintian.debian.org, and if they do, that's probably
> something worth a discussion on debian-devel to have things explained
> and understood, don't you think?
At this point, I do not think such a broad call for assistance is
necessary. It also would not be helpful for my negotiations. My
counterparties at DSA will assume that I tried to sidestep them. It
embarrasses them and violates their trust. It is an awful way to beg
for understanding and compromise. I hope you understand.
DSA will eventually have to engage in a conversation when I present a
viable alternative. (If not, I will ask for your help.) For the time
being, I am developing both websites in parallel. Most of my work has
gone to the static one. The dynamic website is not even up yet.
> Just because you feel hurt by the fact someone tries to tell you you
> should reconsider an idea doesn't mean their opinion or suggestion is
> moot. I'm sorry if you're feeling hurt, but I stand my point.
I do not feel hurt. Your aggressive behavior toward me is simply
inappropriate. It resembles what is called a bear hug in the US.
Please do not project your assumptions and your fears onto me. [2]
This likewise applies to any persons you may or may not represent as a
member of Debian's community team. Your vague and veiled language, as
in "...and I am probably not alone", only serves to heighten my
anxiety. It is not an open or honest way—and certainly not a friendly
way—to communicate.
[2] Paragraph 7, from the former Chief Rabbi of the British Empire:
https://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/282042
> As soon as
> your new site is working, I'd rather try to have it set in prod on
> lintian.debian.org than making central elements point to an external
> component. And I'd be happy to help and support you that way.
Thank you for your commitment to help. I harbor no plans to redirect
any parts of Debian's services to my experimental server. The feeds
for tracker.d.o and UDD, which the Lintian maintainers control,
continue to be served from lintian.d.o.
> That'd at least allow others to take care of it if one day you feel
> tired of the project, without having to restart everything from scratch.
In line with your other comments, your loaded and suggestive undertone
is also misplaced here. Like everyone else's contributions to the
project, mine are available—without reservation or delay—on public
servers under open source licenses. Perhaps some fearful thoughts got
the better of you.
Please do not be afraid. There is nothing improper going on. I only
strive to provide a positive user experience using modern
technologies.
If in doubt, please have a look at this rewarding message [3] which I
received yesterday. Maybe one day you and I can also correspond in
such a friendly way. I look forward to that day!
[3] https://salsa.debian.org/jelmer/debian-janitor/-/issues/144#note_200256
Have a good weekend, and please get some rest!
Kind regards,
Felix Lechner
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