Le vendredi 06 novembre 2020 à 04:22:15-0800, Felix Lechner a écrit : > Hi Pierre-Elliott, > > On Fri, Nov 6, 2020 at 2:40 AM Pierre-Elliott Bécue <peb@debian.org> wrote: > > > > I could not help but have a concern reading your reply. It feels to me > > that you could have the intent to move the *production* lintian site out > > of Debian's machines. Of course I could understand that a *test* version > > of lintian.debian.org would be hosted somewhere else. But I (and I'm > > probably not alone) would have a really hard time understanding or > > accepting that the production version moved outside of debian.org and on > > a non-controlled Debian machine. > > > > Lintian is debian-centric, and its checks have influence on many parts > > of the infra. To me it needs to stay in Debian for the production part. > > > > I hope you understand that. > > I do not. > > Like so many communications in Debian recently, I actually find your > tone inappropriate for a technical project. A technical project consisting of people who may have opinions, even some based on non-very-technical aspects. > What is the purpose of your message? Do you hope to guilt-trip me into > using DSA infrastructure? Had we not had friendly interactions in the > past, I might think your note came out of a mafia movie. Because I made an assumption on your intents and tried to tell you something you don't want to hear, which is that it should stay in Debian infra? Come on, you should accept the idea that other people has different opinions than yours and have a right to state these. The "it's not technical" argument is not a valid answer. > Perhaps you are making me a proposal I cannot refuse? I'm stating my opinion, and you'll have to deal with the fact that many people in the project do that. The fact that you are working on a project does not mean others can't express concerns and raise their voice if they think the decisions you seem to be willing to take are bad. I'm not coercing you and the way you represent it is your sole interpretation, which is a bit scary. > My planned improvements are driven solely by technical concerns. (Your > message mentions none.) I don't have to mention technical concerns to have a right to feel ill-at-ease with the idea of seeing lintian.debian.org disappear in favour of an externally hosted service. But actually, "it's Debian-centric and used by core components, so it's better having it in our infrastructure" also is a technical concern. > I am still working on the new website and am not really ready to > explain my proposed changes. This is what I call a test version. > For now, it should be sufficient to say that DSA is unable to deliver > on several key aspects of my envisioned changes. For example, DSA is > unable to automatically install newly released versions of Lintian, or > its prerequisites. DSA delivers machines, what you do of these is your call. See nm.debian.org, which is auto-deployed when we release on master et al. > That alone led to a string of extraordinarily frequent, error-prone > and entirely unnecessary interactions on rt.debian.org. A prominent > DSA member's response: "It's easier that way, for you and for us." At > some point, DSA also told me I made changes to their systems too > frequently. Nice solution! > > At some point, I tried to share my vision of a real-time system that > can browse tags online. The response: "There is a trend toward static > pages at Debian." Surely, that excludes tracker.debian.org, wiki.debian.org, nm.debian.org, ddpo.debian.org, udd.debian.org, … > As far as I can tell, DSA and I live on two > different planets—which, to be fair, is not an unusual feeling from my > perspective in California's Silicon Valley. I can't see how and why DSA would forbid you to have a new website set in production on lintian.debian.org, and if they do, that's probably something worth a discussion on debian-devel to have things explained and understood, don't you think? > In any event, I do not control the domain lintian.d.o, so whatever I > am working on will remain a test version unless people decide it works > better. That should be the goal. I do not understand how your message > did anything to make Lintian, or Debian, better. Just because you feel hurt by the fact someone tries to tell you you should reconsider an idea doesn't mean their opinion or suggestion is moot. I'm sorry if you're feeling hurt, but I stand my point. As soon as your new site is working, I'd rather try to have it set in prod on lintian.debian.org than making central elements point to an external component. And I'd be happy to help and support you that way. That'd at least allow others to take care of it if one day you feel tired of the project, without having to restart everything from scratch. -- Pierre-Elliott Bécue GPG: 9AE0 4D98 6400 E3B6 7528 F493 0D44 2664 1949 74E2 It's far easier to fight for one's principles than to live up to them.
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