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RE : Re: Linux Magazin Germany, affecting Debian's image?!

--- Joerg Jaspert <joerg@debian.org> a écrit :
> That was done by me for Cebit, like we did for some other years already.

Well, it seems to lack the proper labeling then. 
> -legal is the wrong list for this, there is no legal issue behind that.

I thought this is not official!
1. The magazine (on the Web; I have not buyed it) didn't said it was a
"special CeBIT edition".
2. It clearly contains packages not on the official update list. AFAIK,
backports like FF1.5 and X.org are not _official_ for Sarge.
So I thought it's the magazine's initiative. It could have been a legal

> If you have a special problem feel free to contact me offlist, or use
> debian-project@lists.debian.org, that fits better.

You're right about the correct list, given there is no legal issue here.

> Thats a DVD for a event, that happened to also get a magazine
> attached. 

I'm not very sure "it happened to". It's for sale now, labeled "sarge".

> We had them to give away for free at the Debian booth at this
> years Cebit (and took some to DebConf), and had a only very slightly
> modified image at this years LinuxTag. Its basically a sarge with
> changed kernel, a few backports and a preseeded d-i that boots on
> multiple architectures.

Sorry to say such things and possibly raise conflictual feelings, but do you
really feel this is *right*?

I'm not involved with any of Debian's events and can't participate into
events like CeBIT, Debconf, LinuxTag. I'm only a GNU/Linux user.

I'm not a "corporate user" and I'm not a decision maker in the company I work
for, yet I assess and evaluate any GNU/Linux distro based on its suitability
for business purposes.

This is how Debian qualified to be one of my distros of choice (the other one
is CentOS). 

But when I see that one of the most seriously organized projects in the world
(that's you, the Debian Project) can have unprofessional lapses like this

To my business logic, if this edition is a legal one (you said it's legal),
and an official one (official = backed by the Debian Project), then either:
1. This edition, having backports you can install right off the DVD "as if
they were official", should also be available from Debian mirrors. 
- or -
2. This edition should be properly marked as "not official", based on the
assumption that integrating unofficial backports (i.e. backports from
backports.org like firefox_1.5.dfsg+ are _not_ official to my
understanding) makes the edition of the release... just unofficial!

If you expect people to go with Debian stable, you should make sure you don't
mock of the "stable" part in it. 

Excuse me please, but if FF1.5 and X.org can be integrated that easily into
Sarge, why isn't this official, on Debian mirrors?

So, this is not official. While it's not official, this is gonna affect the
image of Debian (it's already done with me). People will start think one of
these ways:
1. "oh, they don't release earlier because they're lazy. look, they've done
it for CeBIT, but then just forgot about it."
2. "oh, they're don't consistent in what they're saying. it's either 'stable
means stable, that's why you only got older packages with backported security
fixes and that's all because that's stable', or 'hey, we can provide you with
newer packages, it's just as stable as the previous definition we had about
Plus, mind you, we can't download the CeBIT edition of "Sarge" (if this can
still be labeled as Sarge).

It's indeed an issue of another Debian list. It's about trustworthship from a
business point of view. It's about PR. It's about a lot of things you should
be thinking of when you allow modified versions to be still labeled as
"Debian Sarge".

But I'm not going to post it to other lists, I don't want to make it seem
like trolling.

Sorry for bothering you, but the approach of Debian on this matter will
probably make it go with RHEL (actually CentOS for myself) soon. I want a
serious approach, you know. A consistent public image.

I'll be unsubscribing quite soon. Thank you for not taking all these rants

(the said) Béranger


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