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Re: Sun Java available from non-free

Wouter Verhelst <wouter@debian.org>
> On Wed, Jun 07, 2006 at 02:38:55PM +0100, MJ Ray wrote:
> > Why do I need a case where some other application breaks?
> > The indemnification is for problems in the Operating System,
> > not only for Sun Java.
> Right. And what's wrong with that? Why do you think it's sane to allow
> loonies to sue Sun over stuff they have nothing, but really _nothing_ to
> do with? [...]

What's wrong with that is that accepting the DLJ is indemnifying
Sun against it!  It's also not only lawsuits.  Reread the DLJ
at http://download.java.net/dlj/DLJ-FAQ-v1.2.html#dlj and
notice what else is included.

I don't think it's sane to allow such lawsuits, but I've heard
insaner lawsuits from the US in the past. The DLJ does little
to stop them.  It just seems to cover Sun's wallet.  Is it
right for free software distributors to cover Sun's wallet?

> > [...]
> > > and it would seem that for any case where the effects are much wider
> > > than just Debian, it can reasonably be argued that the problems are, not
> > > under our control, which would free us from the burden of having to
> > > idemnify Sun.
> > 
> > How does it do that? [...] I don't
> > see how those modifications are excluded.
> If it occurs everywhere, it could reasonably be argued that either the
> JDK is buggy, or not tested well enough.

Accepting the DLJ seems to indemnify Sun about the Operating System,
not just the JDK.  The JDK's bugginess is largely unimportant.
Please don't complicate things by adding JDK bugs to the situation.
That's a whole different question, much less clear to me yet.

> Alternatively, I don't think it's hard for a judge to understand that
> there is this piece of software which we indeed do distribute, but which
> is used by many other people as well, and they all exhibit the same
> flaw; so even if we allowed the bug to slip in, it's not really our
> fault.

Exactly!  It's not our fault, so why should we indemnify Sun against it?

Hope that explains,
Laux nur mia opinio: vidu http://people.debian.org/~mjr/
Bv sekvu http://www.uk.debian.org/MailingLists/#codeofconduct

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