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Re: PHPNuke license

On Mon, 2003-03-03 at 16:30, Glenn Maynard wrote:
> > Even if there is a problem, it's not even on the order of the BSD
> > advertising clause -- it doesn't make the software non-free.  And if
> > there is a problem, it's a genuine problem which ought to be fixed.
> A string of piped commands might output five such notices; a foreach
> loop might output hundreds. [1] I agree that it's not on the order of the
> BSD clause; at least we can disable it, though we might have to research
> how it's done differently in dozens of packages.  I believe it's
> potentially extremely annoying, but (unlike the BSD clause) it generally
> hasn't been, in my experience.  ("Hasn't been" isn't "will never be",
> though.)
> Forcing me to mention the copyrights of underlying tools on my webpage 
> (or the existance of underlying tools at all, for that matter; users
> don't care and can ask if they do, so don't bloat my pages) is orders of
> magnitude more annoying, though.  It's extremely non-free, in the view of,
> well, my own subjective opinion.

That most users don't care hardly seems like an argument -- indeed, most
users don't care whether software is Free Software at all, or whether
the author is being credited properly, or most anything else related to

Additionally. PHPNuke *isn't* merely an underlying tool -- its
copyrighted layout, graphics, HTML, and Javascript are included in its

> [1] Continuing the idea that using these programs in a complicated 
> but user-typed shell string is still "interactive"; it's probably exactly
> this problem that the "interactive" qualification was intended to prevent.
> However, recalling the context, Branden's argument was, I believe, that if a
> web session is interactive with respect to the tools generating them, then
> manual shell scripting is, too.

When you say "the tools generating them", I think this hides a
significant difference between the cases, which I describe above.

Nonetheless, I agree that there is a potential problem here.  I have a
hard time coming up with a clear articulation, tho.

-Dave Turner                     Stalk Me: 617 441 0668

"On matters of style, swim with the current, on matters 
of principle, stand like a rock." -Thomas Jefferson

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