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Re: Back to Windows??

Hello Craig,

Sorry about not greeting you in the previous message, but that whas not my 

On Monday 19 February 2001 21:52, you wrote:
> one the one hand, there's little to be gained by from an OS argument.
> and it all pretty much boils down to personal taste.
> on the other hand, i have to respond to this ...
> On Mon, 19 Feb 2001, Hans Verschoor and Jennie Kohsiek wrote:
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Craig T. Milling" <c-milli@physics.uiuc.edu>
> > To: "'Debian-Laptop (E-mail)" <debian-laptop@lists.debian.org>
> > Cc: "Christopher Wolf" <debianlists@thewolfden.org>; "Craig Milling"
> > <ctmilling@yahoo.com>
> > Sent: Monday, February 19, 2001 6:44 PM
> > Subject: Re: Back to Windows??
> >
> > > Here are some concrete positives (in my experience) for why you would
> > > *want* to run Linux as more than just a hobbyist.
> > >
> > > (1) You control the interface.  You have a choice of window managers,
> >
> > Hans:
> > In the first place these window managers are Windows look-alikes,
> > especially
> Minor point: My name is Craig, not Hans.  Is "Hans" the Dutch way of
> saying "Hey Buddy"?
> I meant that list to be 3 items (IE you have your choice of
> window managers + GNOME or KDE if you like).  I use fvwm with just the
> pager and rclock running.  I really like having 9 virtual desktops and
> being able to navigate largely with the keyboard (nice for laptops).
> for whatever reason, the UI is a big issue for me and i don't like being
> forced into one way of doing things.
> > > (3) Free.  As in beer.  I really like the fact that the next
> > > kernel/GNOME/gnuplot/emacs upgrade won't cost me $90-$100.  It's free.
> > > Yes it costs some time, but (2) makes up for that.
> >
> > Hans:
> > The money issue is relative, Japanese companies are now kicking Linux out
> yes the money issue is relative: for myself who was a grad student at the
> start of using linux, money was hard to come by (but time was plentiful
> *cough*).  so $100 should go to RAM (or beer), not MS.

	I do understand that, I've been a student just like you. But I'm sure you 
	will understand that now I am conducting an experiment in a commercial
	company and every hour spend, by me or my colleagues, will make my boss 
	wonder more if the "shop in Seattle" would not be cheaper.
	That is embarassing for me, it slows down the acceptance of Linux in my

> > > (4) Free.  As in speech.  The source code is open, which means no one
> > > has
> >
> > Hans:
> > I  don't follow this argumentation. The fact that the source is open is
> > in ...
> > therefore yes: Any software controls my computer.
> true, but my point is who controls the software and what input do you
> have.  with MS (or Sun, Apple, HP, ...) the only tool you have is the
> marketplace (don't buy it if you don't like it).  with open source, you
> can fix it yourself or (more likely) there will a group of people who have
> a similar problem and work on a solution.

	This is the same argument that I hear over and over again. In most cases I 
	don't want to fix it, I don't have the time, money or skills available to 
	fix it. And concerning groups of people ..., for the two relatively simple 
	problems I have (probable not simple solutions) I could not found a hint
	anywhere and all alternatives made the problem just worse.
	I'm just scared as hell to take the next implementation steps in the project.

> > > (5) Unixisms: True multitasking, multiuser capabilities.  You don't
> > > have ...
> >
> > Hans:
> > Misargumentation, the file protection system of let's say NT or W2000 is
> > ...
> i can't argue that NT or W2k are stable and have good file security.  i
> did have Win9x in mind.  One major Unixism i forgot to mention is the "do
> a single task well and interact with other tools" philosophy.  again this
> is a matter of personal taste on how to get things done.  along these
> lines a major issue for myself is the ability to store my data in ASCII
> files and easily manipulate them.  It helps to know that i will always be
> able to read them.  do-able in windows?  absolutely.

	I'm not a fan of Bill, but I must say that the file security is excellent.
	Data issue, are you referring to the registry or what ?
> > Hans:
> > Right on !
> > Linux should not be a cult, but I think it is by now .....
> only to some people

	How many is some ?
> > > My testimonial:  I got my laptop in Jan,1999 (an ARM TS759.  ARM is
> > > very ...
> >
> > Hans:
> > Mine: I got an all Linux compatible hardware set, because I checked all
> > ...
> sorry to hear about your troubles.  i hope W2k works for you.

	Well, that is what I finally hear from a lot of people. I talked to a lot
	calling themselves Linux professionals and nobody said: "Where is that
	computer of yours and let's fix the damn thing."
> craig

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