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Re: [RFR] English debconf templates uim-ajax-ime and uim-social-ime



Hi,

Thank you for your reviewing again.
No, it is almost rewriting rather than reviewing.

Updated.
http://anonscm.debian.org/gitweb/?p=collab-maint/uim.git;a=blob;f=debian/control;h=40fbbc940b4085cff7b19fb3b53439780dd236b7;hb=78581cd7d4ed19b59fbee8164c95c0ad32182c96

On Mon, Jun 20, 2011 at 10:53:08AM +0100, Justin B Rye wrote:
> > Upstream says "uim" is not "UIM".  So, I did s/UIM/uim/g.
> 
> But note that they use "Uim" at the beginning of a sentence.

Fixed.

> >> +# but what does the "Pinyin [...] Hangul [...]" bit actually mean?
> > 
> > Do you mean "Why do Pinyin and Hangul have explanation such as Chinese/Korean
> > input method? Anthy, SKK, Canna and T-Code/TUT-Code are just proper noun"?
> > Do I have to add explanation for all input methods?
> > Or remove Pinyin and Hangul explanations?
> 
> Go back a step.  You also need to explain that:
>  (a) the list is a list of input methods;
>  (b) "Pinyin (Chinese input method)" is short for "which is an input
>      method for Chinese" (and likewise for Korean); and
>  (c) the default "explanation" for items that don't have one is
>      "(which is an input method for Japanese)".
> None of this is obvious to readers who don't already know it!  After
> all, pinyin, hangul, and IPA weren't invented as "input methods";
> they're scripts.  Yes, Pinyin is *also* the name of an input method,
> but it's not self-evident that this is what you're saying.

I see.  I must get rid of my prejudices and take readers side.

> Trying to make this clearer, I'd suggest something like:
> 
>   Uim is an input method module library which supports various scripts and can
>   act as a front end for a range of input methods, including Anthy, Canna,
>   SKK, or T-Code/TUT-Code (for Japanese), Pinyin (for Chinese), Byeoru (for
>   Korean), and X-SAMPA (for the International Phonetic Alphabet). Most of its
>   functions are implemented in Scheme, so it's very simple and flexible.
> 
> (I've also sorted Anthy, Canna, SKK, and T-Code/TUT-Code into
> alphabetical order; mentioned uim-byeoru instead of uim-hangul; and
> used the name X-SAMPA because that's the system being used as a
> shorthand for IPA input.  Calling it "IPA" is like calling all the
> Japanese ones "Kanji".)

Thank you very much.  I understand what you are saying.  Replaced.

> >>  Package: uim-gtk2.0
> > 	:
> >> - This package contains a input method module on GTK+2.0.
> >> + This package contains an IM-module for GTK+2.0.
> >> +# WHAT IS THAT AND WHY SHOULD I INSTALL IT?
> > 
> > -----------------------------------
> > This package contains an IM-module for GTK+2.0.
> > You can use uim on GTK+2.0 applications.
> > -----------------------------------
> 
> Or just
>    This package contains an IM-module to support the use of uim on GTK+2.0
>    applications.

Replaced by your one sentence.

> >>  Package: uim-fep
> > 	:
> >> - This package is a FEP (Front End Processor) on curses.
> >> + This package provides a curses front end for UIM.
> >> +# WHAT IS THAT AND WHY SHOULD I INSTALL IT?
> > 
> > -----------------------------------
> > This package provides a curses front end for uim.
> > You can use uim on console.
> > -----------------------------------
> 
> The problem here is that all the available vocabulary for explaining
> this sort of thing is ambiguous (like "front end") or technical jargon
> (like "curses") or both (like "console").

I see, you are right.  And I think it is "explanation".

> I'm assuming that when you say "console" you don't mean that it
> specifically needs to be launched in a VT login of its own (like
> startx); presumably it just provides a text user interface that can be
> run within an x-terminal-emulator.  But it's still hard to visualise
> how it works.

Uim-fep runs like GNU screen... But it is not suitable explanation.
A reader who does not know GNU screen does not imagine how uim-fep runs.

> For instance, if I want to use this front end to type
> in IPA transcriptions over an SSH connection, where should I install
> uim-fep?

You can install it whichever host.
You run uim-fep in local host, and login to remote host.
You login to remote host, and run uim-fep in remote host.
Either work well.

> Perhaps:
>    This package contains a curses Front End Processor to support the use of
>    uim in a text terminal.
> 
> (Is this in fact an IM-module?)

> >>  Package: uim-anthy
> > 	:
> >> - This package contains Anthy plugin for uim.
> >> + This package contains an Anthy plugin for UIM.
> >> +# WHAT IS THAT AND WHY SHOULD I INSTALL IT?
> > 
> > -----------------------------------
> > This package contains an Anthy plugin for uim.
> > You can use Japanese input method Anthy on uim.
> > -----------------------------------
> 
> Since it "Depends: anthy", which has its own package description, I
> won't expect it to give all the details about working via hiragana.
> 
> Perhaps:
>    This package contains a plugin for uim to support the use of the Japanese
>    input method Anthy.
> Then likewise for
>    input method Canna.
>    input method SKK.
>    input method PRIME.
> 
> (There's no Debian binary package called skk, but it should be clear
> enough.)

Replaced.

> >>  Package: uim-m17nlib
> > 	:
> >> - This package contains m17nlib plugin for uim.
> >> + This package contains an m17nlib plugin for UIM.
> >> +# WHAT IS THAT AND WHY SHOULD I INSTALL IT?
> > 
> > -----------------------------------
> > This package contains an m17nlib plugin for uim.
> > You can input text supported by m17nlib on uim.
> > -----------------------------------
> 
> The tricky part with this one is spotting that the crucial dependency
> is libm17n-0 - once I've found that (and counted the letters in
> "ultilingualizatio") things get much clearer.
> 
> Perhaps:
>    This package contains a plugin for uim to support the use of the
>    general-purpose input method M17n (for "Multilingualization").

Replaced.

> (I've called it "M17n" because the library's official name is "m17n",
> not "m17nlib"; because other packages such as scim-m17n use the name
> "M17n" to refer to the input method; and because I'm assuming all
> names of input methods get capitalised.)

You are right.  There are scim-m17n and ubus-m17n.
But there is mlterm-im-m17nlib like uim-m17nlib.
I will confer with uim packaging team about package name.

> >>  Package: uim-byeoru
> > 	:
> >> + This package provides UIM support for byeoru hangul.
> >> +# "byeoru" means "inkstone", which is no help
> >> +# WHAT IS THAT AND WHY SHOULD I INSTALL IT?
> > 
> > -----------------------------------
> > This package provides uim support for byeoru hangul.
> > You can use Korean input method byeoru on uim.
> > -----------------------------------
> 
> There are no dependencies to chase for further information, but
> googling tells me that "the Byeoru Hangul input suite covers most of
> the major input methods such as 2-beol and 3-beol variants".  So what
> *is* the difference between this and uim-hangul?  And what exactly is
> an input *suite*?

Sorry for my wrong impression and laziness.

> Aha - a FreeBSD port in 2005 mentions that
> # The 'byeoru' module (developed by Jae-hyeon Park) is far more
> # superior to default hangul2/hangul3 module. And it was merged to 0.5
> # version of uim, and will serve as the default hangul input module in
> # the future.
> Is that future now the present?  Perhaps it should be:

I checked uim's NEWS file.

-----------------------------------
> Overview of changes from 1.6.0 to 1.6.1
> =======================================
	:
>   - tcode, trycode, and hangul modules are no longer enabled by
>     default.  Use more sophisticated tutcode and byeoru modules
>     instead.
-----------------------------------

It is the present.
I will confer with team about dropping uim-hangul.

> Perhaps:
>    This package contains a plugin for uim to support the use of the Byeoru input
>    module for hangul (uim's default IM for Korean).

Replaced.

> >>  Package: uim-hangul
> > 	:
> >> + This package provides UIM support for multiple Hangul input styles: 2-beol,
> >> + 3-beol, and Romaja.
> >> +# whatever that is; at least it's obvious who'd use it
> > 
> > 2-beol, 3-beol and Romaja are Hangul input styles,
> > but I do not know what their's details are.
> > I think it is enough description...
> 
> It's not clear what an "input style" is, or why three of them would be
> grouped together as a single "input module".

Yes, you are right, it is not "explanation".

>   Besides, uim-byeoru
> apparently supports exactly the same "styles" (in one "suite"), and is
> now apparently preferred.  Perhaps it shold just be:
>    This package contains a plugin for uim to support the use of the old Hangul
>    input module for Korean.

Replaced.
But, as mentioned above, I will confer with team about dropping it.

> >>  Package: uim-latin
> > 	:
> >> - This package contains Latin and Germanic languages input style for uim.
> >> + This package provides UIM support for languages written in Latin scripts.
> >> +# composing diacritics?  Does it cover Icelandic?  Rumanian?  Czech?
> > 
> > I think uim-latin supports composing diacritics
> > and covers Icelandic from uim-latin's configulation.
> > But it does not cover Rumanian and Czech from it, I think.
> 
> My suspicion was that this stuff about Latin and Germanic languages
> was the usual languages-versus-scripts confusion, and that uim-latin
> supports more or less every Latin-derived character with a Unicode
> code point.  Looking at /usr/share/uim/latin.scm that seems to be true.

I see.  I am under languages-versus-scripts confusion.

> > There is no document for uim-latin (ELatin).
> > 
> > http://code.google.com/p/uim/wiki/WhatsUIM
> 
> It might at least be useful to mention that it *is* "ELatin", and that
> the E stands for Emacs!
> 
> I gather that it provides composing rules for characters unique to
> Icelandic, Hungarian, Vietnamese... it really seems to cover the lot.
> So my first rough guess seems to have been accurate - though maybe we
> could expand on it:
> 
>    This package contains a plugin for uim to support the use of the (Emacs)
>    Latin input method, which provides composing sequences for accented and
>    otherwise modified Roman-alphabet letters.

Replaced.

> >>  Package: uim-pinyin
> > 	:
> >> - This package contains Pinyin input method(Simplified Chinese, Traditional
> >> - Chinese and Unicode) for uim.
> >> + This package provides UIM support for pinyin input (for Simplified or
> >> + Traditional Chinese).
> >> +# the Unicode reference seems like a level error
> > 
> > uim-pinyin has three input methods: py (Simplified Chinese),
> > pyunihan (Unicode) and pinyin-big5 (Traditional Chinese).
> 
> Now I'm even more confused.  How is Unicode an input method, unless
> maybe you've got a keyboard with 100,000 keys?  Don't all of these
> work by *inputting* pinyin, and *outputting* Chinese characters in one 
> of three encodings?
> 
> I can't suggest a revised version yet.

Upstream says below only, there is no document...

http://code.google.com/p/uim/wiki/WhatsUIM
> Chinese
>    New Pinyin (Simplified)
>    Pinyin (Unicode)
>    Pinyin (Traditional) 

> >>  Package: uim-tcode
> > 	:
> >> + This package provides UIM support for T-Code/TUT-Code/Try-Code input (for
> >> + Japanese).
> >> +# for kanji, though how it works is a mystery...
> > 
> > Here is the unofficial T-Code information page in English.
> > http://www.ki.nu/~makoto/tcode/
> 
> So it maps each pair of alphanumeric characters to a common kanji
> character, and you use it by... memorising the whole table?  Ouch.

Yes, you have to memorize the table to use T-Code.
But not whole, there is the relief.

> Does anyone know why it's called by all these names?  Can we use
> "T-Code" as a cover term for all of them?

T-Code is original, TUT-Code and Try-Code are derivatives.
But they are generically called "T-Code".

-----------------------------------
> Overview of changes from 1.6.0 to 1.6.1
> =======================================
	:
>   - tcode, trycode, and hangul modules are no longer enabled by
>     default.  Use more sophisticated tutcode and byeoru modules
>     instead.
-----------------------------------

Present, upstream obsoletes T-Code and Try-Code.
I will confer with team about dropping T-Code and Try-Code.

> > -----------------------------------
> > This package provides uim support for T-Code/TUT-Code/Try-Code input.
> > T-Code/TUT-Code/Try-Code is a kind of direct input method of Japanese
> > with two strokes - see http://openlab.jp/tcode/ (Japanese).
> > -----------------------------------
> 
> Perhaps:
>   This package provides uim support for T-Code/TUT-Code/Try-Code input, a
>   Japanese input method mapping pairs of alphanumeric codes to individual
>   kanji - see http://openlab.jp/tcode/ (in Japanese).
> 
> (I don't object to the references being in Japanese as long as they're
> labelled as such.)

Replaced.

> >>  Package: uim-viqr
> > 	:
> >> - This package contains Vietnamese Quoted-Readable input style for uim.
> >> + This package provides UIM support for Vietnamese Quoted-Readable input.
> >> +# whatever that is; at least it's obvious who'd use it
> > 
> > -----------------------------------
> > This package provides uim support for VIQR (Vietnamese Quoted-Readable)
> > input. VIQR is a mnemonic encoding of Vietnamese characters into US ASCII
> > for use on 7-bit systems - see RFC1456.
> > -----------------------------------
> 
> Oh!  So it's more like X-SAMPA (or the exact opposite of ELatin).  And
> this description is good just as it is (or am I just getting tired?)

Thank you for your reviewing.

> >>  Package: uim-ipa-x-sampa
> > 	:
> >> - This package contains International Phonetic Alphabet (X-SAMPA) input style
> >> - for uim.
> >> + This package provides UIM support for International Phonetic Alphabet input
> >> + using X-SAMPA.
> >> +# well, everybody knows what that is, right?
> > 
> > ----------------------------------
> > This package provides uim support for IPA (International Phonetic Alphabet)
> > input using X-SAMPA (Extended Speech Assessment Methods Phonetic Alphabet)
> > see http://www.phon.ucl.ac.uk/home/sampa/x-sampa.htm
> > -----------------------------------
> 
> The expansion of X-SAMPA isn't very useful (it isn't obvious that it's
> talking about an "Extended version of the SAMPA encoding", and anyone
> who cares can look at ucl.ac.uk); more important is the fact that it's
> seven-bit clean.  I would suggest:
> 
>   This package provides uim support for the International Phonetic Alphabet,
>   using the 7-bit extended-SAMPA system - see
>   http://www.phon.ucl.ac.uk/home/sampa/x-sampa.htm

Replaced.
 
> >>  Package: uim-yahoo-jp
> > 	:
> >> - This package contains Yahoo-JP (Web API) input style for uim.
> >> - See: http://developer.yahoo.co.jp/webapi/jlp/jim/v1/conversion.html
> >> + This package provides UIM support for Japanese input via the Yahoo-JP web
> >> + API - see http://developer.yahoo.co.jp/webapi/jlp/jim/v1/conversion.html
> >> +# seeing that page won't help if I can't read Japanese
> >> +# I see no "https" here - doesn't this need a warning too?
> >> +# it's completely unclear what a web Input Method Environment is
> > 
> > There is no English page for Yahoo-JP (Web API).
> > It does not support "https", so I add warning.
> > 
> > -----------------------------------
> > This package provides uim support for Japanese input via the Yahoo-JP web
> > API - see http://developer.yahoo.co.jp/webapi/jlp/jim/v1/conversion.html
> > Note that all requests to the Yahoo-JP server go over the Internet
> > unencrypted.
> 
> Okay - phew!  Thanks for going through all that.

Thank you for your reviewing.

I am deeply grateful to you.
-- 
Regards,
	dai

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