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Re: improving the UX with the default KDE installation

¡Hola fradev!

El 2017-03-31 a las 12:19 +0200, fradev escribió:
On 30/03/17 10:22:20 CEST, Jimmy Johnson wrote:
I won't use dolphin unless I'm forced to use it and konq-plugins is a needed package for konqueror.

But if we focus on a setup suitable for the general public, I think dolphin is good as file manager and well integrated. Instead konqueror (and therefore konq-plugins), as stated in previous messages, is obsolete and not well maintained upstream and thus it should at most be suggested but not recommended.

  Depends: dragonplayer                 --> substitute with: vlc
I use mpv, my dragonplayer is set to dummy [...]
Anyway, "depend" is too high a constraint for a video player.
Mpv is really popular and I use it too but, still, VLC is possibly the preferred choice by the general public, it provides a good user experience also for non-techies and it integrates well in the Plasma desktop. Furthermore, I would not change the type of dependency in order to assure that in a basic setup users have a mean to play videos and music.

Mmh, I'm not sure about this. Surely dragonplayer is underused, and vlc and/or mplayer/mpv are way more popular, but dradonplayer is well integrated with the desktop.

  Depends: kcalc
Come on! I've got fingers for that (and even a brain sometimes). And Google, via Firefox can do it too.
Hum, however kcalc has advanced features that can be used by students and technicians. And, of course, it can be used without an internet connection (:

Please, avoid the bikesheding, kcalc is a rather small app, and an useful tool to have.

  Depends: khelpcenter
There is no useful integrated help (to my mind ;-) ); When I want help about something: the internet is my friend, and if it's not enough, I come here. So "suggest" at most.
Same here but still I think it can be useful somehow. IMHO documentation and dedicated help applications must be included in a basic setup to cover any possible use case.

The basic documentation of the applications needs to be installed in the the standard installation. khelpcenter needs to be present after installing the kde tasksel option.

  Depends: kmail                        --> change to: Suggests
It has its glitches... But I use it
I use it too and I propose to suggest it, and not recommend it, exactly because it has it glitches and many people probably prefer other clients or just e-mail web interfaces even when using the Plasma desktop.

I think that kde-standard needs to provide kmail, even if kmail is "glitchy", btw, it works way better than the one in jessie. The same goes for korganizer. kaddressbook and knotes are required for a sane kmail and korganizer installation respectively.

I have no opinion on akregator.

Depends: kde-spectacle
"Depend" is too high: it's not "necessary" in anyway.
I agree, maybe "suggests"?

kde-spectacle is the default snapshot tool, and small enough to even consider a change. Please, avoid this kind of suggestions, they invalidate the rest of the proposal.

  Depends: kwalletmanager
I never voluntarily use it; disable it whenever I can. [...]
Also I've noticed that my WPA password is stored in clear there:
/etc/NetworkManager/system-connections/ This happened automatically during unofficial (viz. with firmware) netinst. I wouldn't recommend kwalletmanager to anybody.
I didn't know that, is there a bug report for it? I have to say that I use it just for a couple of things and it proves to be useful some time. But for serious things I always suggest pass or keepassx. Nevertheless I have no idea if the Plasma desktop can work without it.

kwalletmanager is the configuration tool, libkf5wallet-bin is the package that provides the kwallet, and half the desktop depends on it, so it can't be easily removed. By removing kwalletmanager you end up with no way to "manage" your running kwallet.

  Depends: okular
Even though I'm a fan, depend is a bit too much to my mind. I would recommend "recommend" here
Like for the video player, I think users should have a mean to read their documents in a basic setup.

Currently I'm recommending qpdfview, but this might change once okular is migrated to kf5.

  Recommends: plasma-nm                 --> change to: Depends
I don't use it + it must use kwallet; so recommend is enough to my mind
I'm reconsidering this and I agree that "recommends" maybe is enough.

This is a recommends so the ones that prefer a different network management tool, like wicd, can use it without removing kde-standard.

Then "kde-plasma-desktop" Depends: kde-baseapps Which in turn [...]

I'll reply in a next mail. Meanwhile I would like to gather the comments and firstly draft a bug report for the packages task-kde-desktop and kde-standard and then proceed in order.

Many of the maintainers, including myself, also read this list, so if you prepare a diff of the changes with a rationale for each change we'll consider them. But please take into account that statements like "I don't use it" are no reason enough to drop a dependency as the specific tool surely provides a functionality to the desktop user.

Happy hacking,
"The best way to predict the future is to invent it."
-- Alan Kay
Saludos /\/\ /\ >< `/

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