Re: [Slightly OT] Philosophy (was Re: Replacement for Abiword: LyX? Openoffice?)
On Tue, 2003-10-21 at 16:26, Ron Johnson wrote:
> On Tue, 2003-10-21 at 17:07, Ben Armstrong wrote:
> > On Tue, Oct 21, 2003 at 04:13:49PM -0500, Ron Johnson wrote:
> > > Why expose children to computers at such a young age? Shouldn't
> > > they be running and jumping, playing with toys, coloring, cutting,
> > > riding bike/scooter, etc, instead?
> >
> > You talk about that as if "exposing" should be a carefully controlled thing.
> > I neither "expose" nor "shield" my 2 year-old from computers. They are
>
> ok, "expose" was the wrong word, since I used vim for a short
> time when teaching him the alphabet.
>
> > simply there, begging to be interacted with: by banging on the keyboard,
> > playing with the monitor controls, and rebooting them regularly. ;)
> >
> > With my 2-year-old, all I really want to do is take her natural urge to
> > explore her environment and guide it gently in areas that I think she'd
> > enjoy. That's the same impetus for "exposing" all of my children to
> > computers.
>
> When one is sitting in front of the computer, one is not running,
> jumping, reading books, etc.
Correct, but most kids are not doing the above 100% of the time either.
> For example, if I'd had a computer when I was young, there's no
> way that I'd have read so many books, and, thus, even though my
> joystick skills would be more highly developed, my intellect and
> "world exposure" would be much diminished.
Who says that books per say are a "good thing"? Learning, and knowledge
are. It happens that since the invention of the printing press the
preferred method of individual learning has been the book.
Now, I would not advocate removing books from a child, but at the same
time, technology, including computers, can reduce the level of cost to
obtain the same amount of knowledge as the books.
Take a look at any school library. Most are shrinking. This includes
the library at Corbett Elementary School (OSEF's current Linux on the
Desktop test site), and they won National School Library Media Program
of The Year in 2000 from the American Library Association. Technology
helps fill this economic gap.
> > And why should any of that be to the exclusion of running, jumping, or any
> > of the other things you mentioned? All of the children do those things
> > without any prompting at all, and we give them plenty of opportunities to
> > develop in those ways.
>
> Ok, here's another provocative question: why is it needed? Anyone
> over 40 grew up without computers, and there are lots of 40+ geeks.
> (Those of us who are 40+ can attest to this.)
It's like saying "we did not have indoor plumbing when I was a kid".
Times change, if you don't take advantage of the resources at your
disposal, you will fall behind, quickly.
Now, talking with most Teachers, they are going to say that computers
are a horrible waste. There is good reason for this. Most schools do
not manage computers and technology properly, they don't foster the
ability to use the tools. Most schools spend over $5K USD per seat to
manage technology, this is far more than it should cost. Part of OSEF's
mission is to enhance education through Open Source & Free Software
tools and methodology, as well as reduce the costs of technology for
education.
> Yes, computers are better than the TV, but the kids are going to be
> in front of them so often (young people going into the military are
> much heavier, and less in shape than they used to be) for the rest
> of their lives. So, pushing it back for a couple of years can't
> hurt them.
I think you can better blame this in diet and exercise habits than you
can on the use of technology.
> > > Yes, I have 2 young children: boy aged 5.67, girl aged 4.25, and
> > > yes, I am a database administrator (after being a programmer for
> > > many years), and I've been very successful at it, while not having
> > > been exposed to computers until 12th grade. (Although I could have
> > > used WordStar to type book reports & term papers.)
> >
> > I have five children, all of whom use the computer in varying degrees, and
> > all of whom discovered them early in life. I, too, have a background in
> > computers, but I came to it much earlier in life: at around age 8. I don't
> > think the early exposure has warped me, but then again, maybe it has, and
> > I'm just too warped to realize it. :)
> >
> > If it were a matter of deciding whether to *push* computers on children at
> > an early age or not, I would see your point. But they are such a part of
>
> Which lots of parents are doing.
I see very few parents pushing their children to use the computer. I do
see them setting up accounts, and instructing them on how to login.
Beyond that, usage patterns is based upon the child's desire to use the
computer. It's not form 4pm-6pm you will be learning how to use the
computer.
> > life now that I would have to actively *shield* my children from them to
> > avoid this "exposure" that you seem to think is detrimental to their
> > development.
>
> I won't be able to shield them for long, whether I want to or not....
>
> When they turn 6-7, it will be interesting to teach them Python
> if they are interested.
The major goals we have at Corbett with the Kinder and 1st grade
students is to learn that technology is a tool, and is accessible.
Basic mouse and keyboard input, as well as simple educational games
(TuxPaint, and Gcompris for example). The students get on average 45
minutes/week in the computer lab.
> > I'm not willing to do that, nor do I really see the point. So
> > long as everything is kept in proper balance (just as I wouldn't feed your
> > 2-year-old a diet of junk food, neither do I plunk the kids in front of the
> > computer for hours at a time) using computers at an early age can be a fun
> > and constructive part of their growing up, without taking away from all of
> > the other more classically "kid" things that kids do.
>
> But, as I said before, when they're in front of the computer, they
> aren't doing "the other things".
Kids can multitask far better than adults IMHO.
Harry
>
> --
> -----------------------------------------------------------------
> Ron Johnson, Jr. ron.l.johnson@cox.net
> Jefferson, LA USA
>
> "I have been assured by a very knowing American of my
> acquaintance in London, that a young healthy child well nursed is
> at a year old a most delicious, nourishing, and wholesome food,
> whether stewed, roasted, baked, or boiled; and I make no doubt
> that it will equally serve in a fricassee or a ragout."
> A MODEST PROPOSAL FOR PREVENTING THE CHILDREN OF POOR PEOPLE IN
> IRELAND FROM BEING A BURDEN TO THEIR PARENTS OR COUNTRY
--
Harry McGregor, CEO, Co-Founder
Hmcgregor@osef.org, (520) 661-7875 (CELL)
Open Source Education Foundation, http://www.osef.org
A non-profit tax exempt charitable organization
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