Re: kids distribution (was : Two blind mice)
On Sun, 24 Sep 2000, Chris Ellec wrote:
> I guess it depends on your intented audience.
The nice thing about Debian is that there are enough people working on the
problem of making the best free software distribution in the world that
they can all work on it from their own personal angle. Somehow, out of
all that chaos, arises a distribution that is many things to many people,
and yet which "hangs together" quite well indeed.
> If it is parents with a
> limited knowledge of the intricaties of Linux, or even none at all if
> coming for Windows or Mac, you need something that is all setup for
> them, otherwise, it's probably better to not even include the
> application.
We likely start with a very selfish focus. And then as we become
comfortable with that, move outside of our own "family circles" (I use the
word "family" in the broadest sense) to those "outside", which might
include quite different folks, with little or no exposure to computers.
> I mean why bother put the source code for a spreadsheet program, unless
> there is some install routine to put it in a usable state for a child
> automatically (including putting an icon on the desktop).
>
> Which goes back to what you said about being more work, but necessary.
>
> The problem with that approach is that we bury ourselves into too much
> work, and nothing gets done ...
I agree. Starting out too broad gets us in too deep too quickly. Thus,
my selfish focus is for my own wife and children. I am a geek with a geek
wife (albeit one with non-technical roots) and an assortment of children,
some with geeky tendencies and some decidedly ungeeky. They are my own
personal intended audience. If what catches my fancy for my family
benefits other people, then well and good. I know myself, and what works
best when I volunteer. I need to focus my energy on what interests me
personally, or I won't have the will to carry through with it (and even
when I do have the interest, following through is something I seriously
need to work on :) So yes, there is a danger in biting off more than we
can chew. If we start small, and selfishly-focused, we will be able to
sustain the project. As Debian Jr. grows (and as we grow with it) we can
start thinking about the tougher issues, beyond our personal boundaries.
Some aspects of Debian require more organization than others, like the
bootdisks, for example. Without a clear plan, they could spin their
wheels forever and never get any closer to clearing up the public
perception that "Debian is hard to install". Indeed, I think the
bootdisks are the most difficult project for Debian. There are so many
different possible scenarios for bootdisks that need to be handled with as
few surprises for the users as possible.
Debian-boot needs to be the most unselfishly motivated of all of Debian's
working groups. It is sufficiently technical a project that it needs to
attract those who would be least likely to need "hand-holding" through the
install process, our most accomplished technical minds. And yet what the
bootdisk project *produces* is for those who are most ill prepared to deal
with the unexpected, namely, brand new adminstrators of Debian systems.
Debian's chaotic "everyone works on what interests them" approach works
against a project like this. (I'm not slighting Debian-boot, btw. I've
been hanging out and trying to keep up with the massive traffic on their
list. They are, indeed, working out a complete overhaul of the installer
for next release, and I wish them well in that effort. I'm glad it's not
me. :)
With the Debian Jr. project we have a bit more freedom. At one end of the
spectrum we could just package what we each feel is something children
want, with no regard for the overall organization of the thing we are
building. Even if that is all we did, I still think we'd be producing
something for children better than we have now. Hanging out on the
seul-edu and kidsgames lists has made me excrutiatingly aware that there's
a lot out there for children, and yet very little of it is in Debian so
far.
As we start out in this direction, packaging whatever we want for
children, we will, naturally, begin to turn our minds to how it should all
be organized. How to integrate our work into the menu system is a good
example of this sort of thing. It is important not to let all the
discussion that will come up around these topics to get in the way of the
rest of our work. It will take some discipline to take our rough ideas at
organizing Debian Jr. and implement them into working prototypes, testing
them, working out the design flaws, and gradually hammering out something
useful for the children.
> > "Jeffrey F. Cuff" wrote:
> > > The Linux for Kids mission statement states that the target audience
> > > is "under the age of 10", but it seems to me that it probably means
> > > 4-10, with BabyDebian (Linux for Babies?) being a removable
> > > customization option ... like bicycle training wheels.
When we drew up the Debian Jr. project goals, we discussed what our age
range was going to be and deliberately did *not* set limits to it. Making
a system that is fun for children is also, naturally, going to make a
system that is fun for adults. The "target audience" is "whoever the
children are in your life". Since Debian itself is a young project, I'm
going to assume that this includes a lot of fairly new parents, and
therefore many young kids, but Debian Jr. is by no means limited to
reaching these children. You could be an older brother or sister, or a
babysitter, or just a friend to the children in your own personal target
audience. So I don't really worry about what ages we are actually
reaching ... it will all happen organicly.
Finally, as for "a removable customization option", you obviously do not
think like my wife. Just when you think your house is nice and full with
the pitter-patter of tiny feet, and you can sit back and relax, your
brother and sister-in-law unexpectedly have a fifth child and your wife
says "gee, honey, why can't *we* have five kids too?" So don't remove
those preschool programs quite yet. :)
Ben
--
nSLUG http://www.nslug.ns.ca synrg@sanctuary.nslug.ns.ca
Debian http://www.debian.org synrg@debian.org
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