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Re: STOP INCLUDING EXTERNAL JARS IN YOUR JAVA PACKAGES!



On Fri, Nov 09, 2001 at 11:51:40AM -0800, Kevin A. Burton wrote:
> > s/doesn't/does/ ?
> 
> yup... sorry :(  should have been does
> <snip>

:)

> > Yes that is what you have to do. Libbar-1.1.1 needs to be a package with that
> > name so an upgrade does not introduce conflicts. I think the new proposed java
> > policy adresses this quite good.
> 
> Is there a link to the new proposed policy..  I think I saw it posted but can't
> remember where I put it :(
> <snip>
> 
> <snip>
> 
> > > Are you saying that .WAR files are also incorrect?
> > 
> > Yes they are most probably incorrect.
> 
> ... perhaps on debian systems.  It does make it easy to deploy java
> applications especially if you want to be as 100% java as possible.
> 
> I don't think we will get past this issue though.  The WAR approach does allow
> one VM to load code from multiple places due to the classloader approach.
> 
> If we want to push this 100% we will have to use a more modern classloader (IMO
> the standard classloader suck).  
> 
> > > Just because it isn't the UNIX approach doesn't make it incorrect.
> > > 
> > > I have an Open Mind (TM) on the subject so I am listening...  Explain why
> > > the Servlet WAR spec is incorrect and how it could be done better.
> > > (Specifically WRT the WEB-INF/lib approach).
> > 
> > Wars are not needed if you have deb packages.
> 
> Not necessarilly.  In the above scenario they are needed. 

No it is not needed. See below.

> > Why have a packaging system (and a very bad one not allowing symlinks) inside
> > an other packaging system?
> 
> There are advantages.  Again nothing is black and white. :)
> 
> > You can use simple directories instead of the war files. :)
> 
> I don't understand???
> <snip>

You say that the war-files allow the classloading. That is not entirely
true. Take tomcat for example.

* You place a war-file in the specified directory.

* Restart tomcat.

* Tomcat now unzips this file to the webapp directory.

* Tomcat is started and uses the directories that has the WEB-INF dirs
  and more.

Conclusion: The war-file is not used directly. It is mearly unzipped and
because we have a deb arproach in debian the war-files is not needed.

War files have a major disadvantage and that is that they are simple zip-
archives which means that they will not support symbolic links.

I think we should cover the war-files in the policy too.
They should be avoided, right?

Regards,

// Ola

> - -- 
> Kevin A. Burton ( burton@apache.org, burton@openprivacy.org, burtonator@acm.org )
>              Location - San Francisco, CA, Cell - 415.595.9965
>         Jabber - burtonator@jabber.org,  Web - http://relativity.yi.org/
> 
> Resistance is *not* futile!
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-- 
 --------------------- Ola Lundqvist ---------------------------
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