Re: kaffe orphaned? (thought from outside..)
Ean, Staphane... I think I understand how each of you two feel; however,
I would like to remind you guys that this whole thing is supposed to be
fun. :) This is sort of degenerating into a bit of a flame war; perhaps
before responding to future messages (including this one? :) take a few
minutes to remind yourself why you are contributing to Free software to
begin with. Debian is a hell of an OS, thanks to wonderful work, and
lots of disagreements over time. Please don't get soured on your work
here due to a difference in opinions.
It might serve everyone's interests more to argue over the technical
merit of each proposal.
I want to thank you guys, for making debian a system that I want to
develop my Java code under. It is real pleasure to code on Debian -- and
it is due in large part to your hard work.
Thanks. :)
On Thu, Sep 09, 1999 at 04:08:13AM -0500, Ean R . Schuessler wrote:
> On Thu, Sep 09, 1999 at 10:28:30AM +0200, Stephane Bortzmeyer wrote:
> > My name is Stéphane. You can drop the accent on the first e if it is
> > more convenient.
>
> Apologies.
>
> > Thanks for the "half conceived". The proposed Java policy has been
> > sent on this list several months ago and discussed and modified many
> > times. <http://www.debian.org/Lists-Archives/>
>
> Well, something is either a complete work or some part undone. I think I
> have been kind in my 50% attribution.
>
> > What is official in Debian? You seem to think that the only worthy
> > texts have been blessed by some authority. The Perl policy have not
> > been: people on debian-perl discussed it and it was adopted by rough
> > consensus. Same thing for the Emacs policy. Do you mean the Debian
> > Project Leader or any other official body has to formally approve any
> > decision which is taken to improve Debian?
>
> I don't know what the official policy on policy development is. Filing
> bugs against a spectrum of Java related packages, however, is certainly
> not it. I realize I haven't helped you mature your policy as much as I
> could have but I don't think that stands as a justification for your
> methodology.
>
> > I hesitate on this one. After many messages on the list announcing the
> > release of java-common and its inclusion of the proposed policy
> > <http://www.debian.org/Lists-Archives/debian-java-9907/msg00015.html>,
> > the words "suspiciously slipped" are insulting. Should I get really
> > angry or did I miss something? Anyway, I accept in advance your
> > apologies.
>
> Considering the chain of events and my typical tone I find myself
> suprisingly spare in the "go shove it" department. I wouldn't complain
> to much.
>
> > The current policy says (I respect the capitalization):
> >
> > PROPOSED Debian policy for Java ... An important warning: this text
> > is a proposal. I put it here, publically, so it can be read,
> > discussed, implemented, ignored, etc. It has no sort of endorsement
> > from any authority in Debian or elsewhere.
> >
> > If it is "blurred", it means I should never try to write in English.
>
> I don't think your policy belongs in the potato distribution. It is to
> confusing and it is being dissiminated to a much wider audience than the
> population of this developmental list. It is simply to preliminary and
> too blury.
>
> > You forgot to say that it was labelled "wishlist". Closing a wishlist
> > bug without any delay for the discussion (bug 44459 was closed
> > yesterday) is rude and certainly does not help to convince that you do
> > a good job as a maintainer. Bugs are several years old and still not
> > closed. Bug 44459 was closed in less than a day.
>
> Admittedly, you have irritated me and my actions reflect that.
>
> > "Then, it will be war" (J. Caesar, 51 BC)
>
> Don't be foolish. If your perceptions are that the removal of the
> java-common package is the start of some sort of "war" then I find your
> input neither objective nor desirable.
>
> > The proposed Java policy has been discussed many times here. What
> > prevented you for joining the discussion?
>
> Time. Time and the obviously considerable amount more that would be
> burned up refining your somewhat limited policy. I think that you
> realize that there is a considerable amount of work to be done and that
> you were trying to be productive with your actions. However, I think
> that goading people into helping you is not going to get you the results
> you might hope for.
>
> I appreciate that you are trying to be constructive. You must realize,
> however, that time with Debian is most often donated and that if you
> intend to _demand_ anything you had better do so with the most tactful
> and careful tone you can arrive at. I appreciate that you took the time
> to sit down and write a page and half long attempt at a Java policy. The
> thing that you had better start to appreciate is that your effort does
> not represent anything comprehensive or well thought out and that your
> attempt to enforce it has already raised the hackles of more than one
> developer.
>
> I am honestly trying to help you communicate with me, but you will not
> find an unlimited supply of interest in that department.
>
> > You're welcome. Everything that I wrote here is public. I can imagine
> > the leader or the people in the TC learning that debian-java people
> > cannot work together and need their vote (it is even possible that
> > nobody in the TC programs with Java...)
>
> I don't think that it would come as much of a suprise to any long time
> Debianer that people often fail to work together smoothly. If my message
> isn't clear in that paragraph, let me spell it out for you. You will be
> better served if my interest in your effort is positive rather than
> negative. If you do not alter your tactics my interest will become
> definatively negative.
>
> Are we crystal? E
>
> -- ___________________________________________________________________
> Ean Schuessler As above
> Novare International Inc. so below ---
> Some or all of the above signature may be a joke
>
>
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--
Seth Arnold | http://www.willamette.edu/~sarnold/
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