Re: kaffe orphaned? (extended reply)
On Thu, Sep 09, 1999 at 10:28:30AM +0200, Stephane Bortzmeyer wrote:
> My name is Stéphane. You can drop the accent on the first e if it
> is more convenient.
Apologies.
> Thanks for the "half conceived". The proposed Java policy has been
> sent on this list several months ago and discussed and modified many
> times. <http://www.debian.org/Lists-Archives/>
Well, something is either a complete work or some part undone. I think I
have been kind in my 50% attribution.
> What is official in Debian? You seem to think that the only worthy
> texts have been blessed by some authority. The Perl policy have not been:
> people on debian-perl discussed it and it was adopted by rough consensus.
> Same thing for the Emacs policy. Do you mean the Debian Project Leader or
> any other official body has to formally approve any decision which is
> taken to improve Debian?
I don't know what the official policy on policy development is. Filing bugs
against a spectrum of Java related packages, however, is certainly not it.
I realize I haven't helped you mature your policy as much as I could have
but I don't think that stands as a justification for your methodology.
> I hesitate on this one. After many messages on the list announcing the
> release of java-common and its inclusion of the proposed policy
> <http://www.debian.org/Lists-Archives/debian-java-9907/msg00015.html>, the
> words "suspiciously slipped" are insulting. Should I get really angry or
> did I miss something? Anyway, I accept in advance your apologies.
Considering the chain of events and my typical tone I find myself
suprisingly spare in the "go shove it" department. I wouldn't complain
to much.
> The current policy says (I respect the capitalization):
>
> PROPOSED Debian policy for Java
> ...
> An important warning: this text is a proposal. I put it here, publically,
> so it can be read, discussed, implemented, ignored, etc. It has no sort of
> endorsement from any authority in Debian or elsewhere.
>
> If it is "blurred", it means I should never try to write in English.
I don't think your policy belongs in the potato distribution. It is to
confusing and it is being dissiminated to a much wider audience than the
population of this developmental list. It is simply to preliminary and
too blury.
> You forgot to say that it was labelled "wishlist". Closing a wishlist bug
> without any delay for the discussion (bug 44459 was closed yesterday) is
> rude and certainly does not help to convince that you do a good job as a
> maintainer. Bugs are several years old and still not closed. Bug 44459
> was closed in less than a day.
Admittedly, you have irritated me and my actions reflect that.
> "Then, it will be war" (J. Caesar, 51 BC)
Don't be foolish. If your perceptions are that the removal of the
java-common package is the start of some sort of "war" then I find your
input neither objective nor desirable.
> The proposed Java policy has been discussed many times here. What prevented
> you for joining the discussion?
Time. Time and the obviously considerable amount more that would be burned
up refining your somewhat limited policy. I think that you realize that
there is a considerable amount of work to be done and that you were trying
to be productive with your actions. However, I think that goading people
into helping you is not going to get you the results you might hope for.
I appreciate that you are trying to be constructive. You must realize,
however, that time with Debian is most often donated and that if you intend
to _demand_ anything you had better do so with the most tactful and careful
tone you can arrive at. I appreciate that you took the time to sit down
and write a page and half long attempt at a Java policy. The thing that
you had better start to appreciate is that your effort does not represent
anything comprehensive or well thought out and that your attempt to enforce
it has already raised the hackles of more than one developer.
I am honestly trying to help you communicate with me, but you will not
find an unlimited supply of interest in that department.
> You're welcome. Everything that I wrote here is public. I can imagine the
> leader or the people in the TC learning that debian-java people cannot work
> together and need their vote (it is even possible that nobody in the TC
> programs with Java...)
I don't think that it would come as much of a suprise to any long time
Debianer that people often fail to work together smoothly. If my message
isn't clear in that paragraph, let me spell it out for you. You will be
better served if my interest in your effort is positive rather than
negative. If you do not alter your tactics my interest will become
definatively negative.
Are we crystal?
E
--
___________________________________________________________________
Ean Schuessler As above
Novare International Inc. so below
--- Some or all of the above signature may be a joke
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