Hi, On Mo 02 Jul 2018 12:56:32 CEST, Dashamir Hoxha wrote:
On Sun, Jul 1, 2018 at 2:13 PM Wolfgang Schweer <w.schweer@gmx.de> wrote:To my understanding it's all about: (1) the meta-package namespace (2) the approach how to organize the educational packages into meta-packages (3) the list of packages such a meta-package recommends. ad 1) I propose to use the Debian Edu Blends approach; this makes detailed information about packages available for interested people, see: https://blends.debian.org/edu/tasks/ That said, meta-packages should be maintained as Debian Edu tasks, see: https://salsa.debian.org/debian-edu/debian-edu ad 2) Debian Edu is organizing educational packages by topic, Edubuntu by education level. IMO there's no reason against level related Debian Edu meta-packages in addition; actually, the meta-package education-primaryschool is already one. ad 3) Edubuntu seems to recommend by far less packages compared to Debian Edu (with some newer ones like gcompris-qt, scratch, thonny definitely missing). So maybe there could be level related Debian Edu meta-packages with a base set of recommended packages (revised Edubuntu list), and additional suggested packages. These meta-packages come to my mind: - education-preschool - education-primaryschool (already existing, to be modified) - education-secondaryschool - education-highschool (like ubuntu-edu-tertiary) - education-university Education level related meta-packages might also come in handy as far as the Debian Edu modular installation approach (still work in progress) is concerned, see: https://wiki.debian.org/DebianEdu/Documentation/Buster/Installation#Modular_installationI agree that level related meta-packages can be useful to DebianEdu, in addition to topic related meta-packages. This gives users better choices about what to install.
/me nods.
About the namespace of the meta-packages, I also see packages starting with `debian-edu-` (for example if you try `apt list debian-edu-*`) But if you say that `education-*` is the right namespace to use, I would agree.
The education-* bin:pkgs come from the debian-edu src:package.Ideally, you put your education-level-based meta-package also into the debian-edu src:package.
All the other debian-edu-* packages relate to pre-configuring Debian Edu systems in the school network (-install and -config) or to special artwork (-artwork-*).
The meta-package `education-university` that you propose does not seem useful to me, because unlike the other levels of study, the topics of study on this level are too broad, so you cannot suggest a list of packages that can be useful for everyone (or the list would be huge). Topic meta-packages are more useful for this level of study.
I agree. Anything could be put in -university.
If we can depend on your help and support, I would encourage the student (Deepanshu) to create the relevant Debian Edu tasks (about the meta-packages that you mentioned: education-preschool, education-primaryschool, education-secondaryschool, education-highschool) on the salsa repository. This should not be a difficult task for him.
Deepanshu can file merge request on Debian's GitLab instance salsa.debian.org. He can sign up for a guest account on salsa.debian.org under
https://signup.salsa.debian.org/
As far as I know, due to missing contributors Edubuntu is LTS since 2014with supposed EOL in 2019, see: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/edubuntu-havedevel/2016-March/003884.html <https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/edubuntu-devel/2016-March/003884.html>Unfortunately yes, Edubuntu is not an official Ubuntu flavor anymore.
Mainly because Jonathan is now working on Debian stuff and also on other topics and Stéphane has also shifted his focus to LXD project lead. However, I am not sure if he even works for Canonical anymore.
But as long as the meta-packages are maintained (which is not a difficult task) this is OK, since they can be installed on any Ubuntu flavor or derivative. I have also suggested the student (Deepanshu) to think about becoming an Edubuntu maintainer, if he likes. But this is not a requirement for this GSoC project.
It took me a bit to find the project description: https://wiki.debian.org/SummerOfCode2018/Projects/VirtualLtspServer Nice!
Also, to my understanding, the Virtual LTSP Server project intends to besort of an replacement for it (as a classroom installation), obviously involving people with teaching experience.Virtual LTSP is not exactly a replacement for Edubuntu. Rather it is an attempt to offer an easy installation and usage of LTSP in a classrom.
How do you handle the DHCP / PXE boot stuff in a class room that already has DHCP setup for the site?
How will the clients be booted?
It is inspired by the observation that secondary and high schools in Albania mostly have a classroom of old computers and that's all, no complex IT infrastructure. These computers usually are connected to a LAN and have access to internet. They already have Microsoft Windows installed and nobody will give you permission to replace it with Linux (since they claim that learning
Urgh.
Microsoft tools is required by the official educational program).
Sigh...
Maybe they will allow you to make them dual boot, but it is too much work to install, maintain and update all of them (and nobody will pay you for a work that they did not ask you to do, and you just do it for fun).
Ok.
In these conditions it would be easier to have a LTSP server on a virtual machine on your laptop, with all the programs that the students need to use (like labby, kturtle, scratch, etc.) and boot the computers of the classroom from the network.
As LTSP FAT Clients or LTSP thin clients? I would get scared of having 15+ students logged into a VBox instance on my notebook.
With LTSP Fat Clients, this might work, depending on the client hardware in computer labs.
You should definitely look at two LTSP extras: desktop-autoloader (makes only sense, if clients get booted before class unburden-home-dir
Maybe this is specific only to Albania, no other countries are in such terrible conditions, but I think that it is still a useful and interesting project.
I am pretty sure that there are other countries that are in a similar bad or possibly even worse condition.
In fact, it does not seem so much different from some school situations I encounter here in Germany.
Joining forces to identify, evaluate and package educational applicationsseems to be useful.I agree with this. Thanks for your help and support.
Thanks for all the extra infos. Greets, Mike -- DAS-NETZWERKTEAM mike gabriel, herweg 7, 24357 fleckeby mobile: +49 (1520) 1976 148 landline: +49 (4354) 8390 139 GnuPG Fingerprint: 9BFB AEE8 6C0A A5FF BF22 0782 9AF4 6B30 2577 1B31 mail: mike.gabriel@das-netzwerkteam.de, http://das-netzwerkteam.de
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