On 2024-01-24 13:29 +0100, Simon Josefsson wrote: > Luca Boccassi <bluca@debian.org> writes: > > > There's always option B: recognize that the Rust/Go ecosystems are not > > designed to be compatible with the Linux distributions model Luca is quite right here. Ultimately this can only be fixed by these ecosystems understanding that software in these languages cannot be sensibly used in distributions until they support modularity and stability. The rust people make the excuse that they are 'too new' to define a stable ABI. That was fair enough for a while, but it's getting to be quite a thin excuse at this point. I think the real issue now is that the people doing the work like their 'very convenient for developers, who cares about anyone else' model so no-one in that community is very bothered to fix it. People like us probably need to put in time to help them. > Go seems to have supported shared libraries since around ca 2015: > > https://go.dev/talks/2015/state-of-go-may.slide#13 > https://docs.google.com/document/d/1nr-TQHw_er6GOQRsF6T43GGhFDelrAP0NqSS_00RgZQ/edit OK. So at least they _have_ a shared library mechanism we could use. Does anyone know what is stopping debian from using it? Can we just start requiring go stuff to build shared libraries in policy? I've done this before with C libraries where upstream only ever shipped a static library so the makefiles had to be expanded a bit, but it's not a lot of work. Is that all we need in Go, or is there some larger issue or much more work needed? > > There are many ways to ship applications today that are much better > > suited for these models, like Flatpak, where the maintenance burden is > > shifted onto those who choose to opt in to such ecosystems. Simply ignoring them until they get a clue would be nice, but I don't think it's very practical at this point, and would be a disservice to our users. But I am certainly in favour of directing effort to try to get relevant change upstream in the ecosystems. i.e stop chopping long enough to sharpen our axe. I have done some of this in the Rust ecosystem, and I know there is quite a lot of corporate pressure being applied. People keep telling us (@ARM) how marvellous Rust is, and we keep telling them that it's useless in the real world until it sorts out the stable ABI/dynamic linking problem. I guess it might be time for another go to see if we can get some traction. Wookey -- Principal hats: Debian, Wookware, ARM http://wookware.org/
Attachment:
signature.asc
Description: PGP signature