Re: Bug#1014908: ITP: gender-guesser -- Guess the gender from first name
* Jeremy Bicha <jeremy.bicha@canonical.com> [220714 10:06]:
> On Thu, Jul 14, 2022 at 2:41 PM Roberto C. Sánchez <roberto@debian.org> wrote:
> >
> > On Thu, Jul 14, 2022 at 11:14:43AM +0100, Steve McIntyre wrote:
> > > edward@4angle.com wrote:
> > >
> > > >Package: wnpp
> > > >Severity: wishlist
> > > >Owner: Edward Betts <edward@4angle.com>
> > > >X-Debbugs-Cc: debian-devel@lists.debian.org, debian-python@lists.debian.org
> > > >
> > > >* Package name : gender-guesser
> > > > Version : 0.4.0
> > > > Upstream Author : Israel Saeta Pérez <israel@lead-ratings.com>
> > > >* URL : https://github.com/lead-ratings/gender-guesser
> > > >* License : GPL-3 & GFDL-1.2+
> > > > Programming Lang: Python
> > > > Description : Guess the gender from first name
> > >
> > > Oh, not *another* package that tries to guess things from names.
> > >
> > > Do you have a real use for this package?
> >
> > Why in the world is that even a relevant question? There are plenty of
> > packages in the archive which are useful to essentially nobody apart
> > from the maintainer and there are even packages which are maintained
> > without being useful to the maintainer at all (but rather useful to
> > others).
> >
> > > There are a *lot* of issues
> > > in this area, and mis-gendering people is not something to risk
> > > lightly...
> > >
> >
> > "There are a *lot* of issues in this area" seems rather nebulous. In
> > which area? Given the fact that we have clear and rather unambiguous
> > guidelines for what constitutes software which is appropriate for
> > inclusion in the archive, and given that on its face this software does
> > not seem to be in conflict with any of those guidelines, what then is
> > the problem? BTW, I'm not interested in any sort of "well I don't like
> > ..." or "such and such could offend so and so ..." sort of arguments.
>
> Debian has a Diversity Statement [1] which says that Debian welcomes
> people regardless of how they identify themselves. Trans people and
> non-binary people face a lot of discrimination, harrassment and
> bullying around the world. That bad treatment of these people is
> against Debian's core values. Therefore, the Debian Project wouldn't
> want to distribute software that appears to facilitate that kind of
> harassment, regardless of the software license it is released under.
> We might not want to distribute such software even if it also has
> non-harmful uses. We don't have to distribute *everything* ourselves.
People within the Debian community have a right to expect that others in
the community will not bully, harass, or denigrate them. They do _not_
have any right to expect that others will not offend them by discussing
or making contributions that espouse values that are different and
incompatible with their own. Such an expectation assumes that one set
of values is correct and the other is wrong. In order for such an
expectation to be met, only one of the two sets of values could exist
within Debian.
Saying that gender-guesser should not be packaged within Debian (using
the excuse given early in this thread) is excluding a contribution based
on the values to which that package adheres and possibly the contributor
and the users who would like to use it. This is contrary to being
inclusive.
Being offended by someone else's civil expression of their values
(including the packaging of a particular piece of software) is not the
same as being bullied or denigrated. Please stop trying to use the
excuse "it might offend someone" to block participation or inclusion of
software. Instead, be inclusive and acknowledge that others' values may
be different from and incompatible with yours, and accept that Debian is
a collection of software from diverse sources and some of it may not
adhere to your values.
This is the difference between true inclusiveness and the false
"political correctness" that seems to be permeating our society today.
When we can all say, "I disagree with your values, but I accept you as a
Debian contributor," then we will be truly inclusive.
...Marvin
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