Re: Should the weboob package stay in Debian?
Miriam Ruiz - 23.07.18, 12:10:
> 2018-07-23 8:23 GMT+02:00 Martin Steigerwald <martin@lichtvoll.de>:
> > Ben Hutchings - 23.07.18, 02:34:
> >> On Sun, 2018-07-22 at 23:34 +0200, Romain Bignon wrote:
> >> > On 22/Jul - 13:14, Geoffrey Thomas wrote:
> >> > > And, as far as I know, everyone who's replied on this thread
> >> > > (myself
> >> > > included) is a man - so I think we should be particularly
> >> > > careful
> >> > > with "it doesn't bother me."
> >> >
> >> > You're right, that's strange that all this men want to tell what
> >> > is
> >> > accepted or not by women. I find it infantilizing for them.
> >>
> >> Sadly, the Debian community is still almost entirely male. Those
> >> women that are here may be afraid to speak up, because they see
> >> what
> >> happens to women with opinions on the Internet.
> >
> > It would be good if women involved in the Debian project would speak
> > up here. Of course I understand any hesitance to do so. I felt
> > hesitance myself often enough, even as what is usually called male.
>
> I won't speak for anyone else than me, so I won't claim to know why
> others haven't stepped in into this discussion.
Thank you very much, Miriam, for your *courage* to speak out your truth.
> We have been through similar situations many times, so we kind of know
> what to expect from them, particularly when upstream is apparently
> trolling on purpose to see how far they can go until someone
> complains. Stepping up and publicly complaining about these
> situations generally leads to some kind of harassment and the usual
> accusations of oversentitiveness, not being able to develop a thick
> skin, restricting freedom of speech in such a way that one might
> think that fixing the issue would immediately lead to a tyrannical
> totalitarian dystopia, etc. I am not keen on enduring all that
> usually comes to us when talking out loud in these situations that,
> honestly, I think are intentionally crafted to burn us out until we
> eventually stop complaining out of tiredness.
I understand. You and your friends have gone through similar situations
many times.
I am sorry that this happened to you.
I won´t defend the men who you experienced these situations with. They
were certainly not acting in my name. I have been accused of being
overly sensitive myself, many times. I know how that feels. And I am
happy that meanwhile I found a way to let it go.
> In my opinion, the messages should be clean up so that they are not
> intentionally aggressive against any social group, and the binaries
> should be renamed to more useful and less provocative names. The
> reasons have been perfectly explained in previous emails, so I won't
> repeat them. And, be aware that, if the messages and binary names stay
> as they are, they will probably be a reference to support the
> argument of us not being too welcoming, so we might as well have an
> argumentative ready to explain it when confronted about it. But I'm
> not gonna start a fight out of this, because I know what is coming,
> and I also feel that it is what upstream wants in the same place.
I accept your point of view.
I welcome you to the Debian project.
I know I can only speak for myself, and I know that my acceptance may
not necessarily help you to feel safer.
I agree with you about changing the messages and changing the binary
names in the way you wrote. I am also okay with seeing the package be
removed from the archive, in case the former would be too much work for
the maintainer to maintain.
> I have the feeling that none of us really wants to be the target of
> the retaliations. At least not me, sorry.
I accept that. I won´t urge you to write anything more in this thread.
I will continue my letting go journey to contribute my part to healing
what is wounded between men and women, to contribute my part to end the
violence between the genders.
Thank you for your openness. I felt like offering you a virtual hug.
However I am unsure whether you´d like to accept one from me, from
someone you likely do not know although you might have seen me at
DebConf15 in Heidelberg. So I let that go as well. As well as any
wanting of approval from you for what I wrote here, or any wanting of
controlling your experience, any wanting to make you feel better and
more welcome than how you feel.
Ciao.
--
Martin
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