On Thu, Dec 28, 2017 at 10:13:52AM +0500, Andrey Rahmatullin wrote: > On Wed, Dec 27, 2017 at 11:00:38PM +0100, Toni Mueller wrote: > > they will most likely simply not understand the point, and what makes > > free hardware so much better. > > > massively encourage users to use non-free hardware > > > link to a page suggesting free hardware over similar non-free hardware > > There is no such thing. There is only non-free hardware without updates > for its software. I'm not sure what you're trying to say. Here are the facts: - There are people who have non-free hardware that they would like to run Debian on. - The current default installer image requires non-free firmware to install on those systems. - The non-default images which include the firmware are hard to find. - The method that the default image suggests (downloading the non-free firmware tarball and installing it in the installation system) is not something that all users should be expected to be able to do. Toni's suggestion seems to be to tell those people that Debian can indeed install on their hardware, while educating them about the problems of it. The result will be that more people run Debian, but as you seem to say the education will not always work so it will also mean that either people are left with hardware without updates, or they are pushed to using non-free software. Neither of those options is nice. So we need to decide what we want. I think there probably is consensus about: - We want people with non-free hardware to install Debian if they want to. - We want people with non-free firmware installed to get updates for it. I'm not entirely sure, but think there is also consensus that: - We want to recommend people to use as little non-free software as reasonably possible. I am planning to propose a GR that will clarify our position about this, and that should result in enabling contrib and non-free in the default installer image until non-free-firmware is somehow selectable for installation without also enabling other non-free software. Any comments are welcome. I'll post to -vote when I have a proposed text. Thanks, Bas
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