On Tue, Jul 01, 2014 at 07:47:36PM +0000, Sune Vuorela wrote: > On 2014-07-01, Steve Langasek <vorlon@debian.org> wrote: > > The question is which of these is a worse outcome for the jessie release. I > > come down firmly on the side that breaking desktops on upgrade is a worse > > outcome than being behind on the latest and greatest user session interface= > > s. > We already have broken desktops-on-upgrade with current systemd-shim in > the archive. And it is even broken after reboot. https://bugs.debian.org/src:systemd-shim Show me a bug report, not FUD. > It might be bugs in the desktop related packages, but it is also a very > low priority one. The bugs are almost certainly not specific to systemd-shim. It'd be just peachy if the desktop maintainers would stop blaming systemd-shim for all their bugs without testing. > Also, post-upgrade-pre-reboot systems has had issues since forever, No. There have been very few instances in which the system was left in an unusable state after a dist-upgrade, even for desktops. Stop making excuses for delivering a poor upgrade experience to our users. > and I think even the upgrade notes recommends to not dist-upgrade from > within X. This was written at a time when X itself was considered flaky enough that it posed a risk to the user's ability to complete the upgrade. After years of improvements to X, careful rewrites of display managers to not restart sessions on upgrade, and fixes to PAM + screensavers to ensure users are not locked out of their desktop mid-upgrade, there is no longer a good reason for such a warning. Unless we bring one back by letting systemd + desktop environments screw us over anew. > I know where I would put the resources I can allocate. Into mailing list threads telling us how we shouldn't expect smooth upgrades from Debian? This is a race to the bottom. -- Steve Langasek Give me a lever long enough and a Free OS Debian Developer to set it on, and I can move the world. Ubuntu Developer http://www.debian.org/ slangasek@ubuntu.com vorlon@debian.org
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