Re: Technical committee acting in gross violation of the Debian constitution

[Axel Wagner <mero@merovius.de>]

Hi,

Noel Torres <envite@rolamasao.org> writes:
> It is a gut feeling, one that I share with systemd proponents, that Debian's 
> desktop experience will be better for our users with systemd.
>
> It is a gut feeling also, and one that has been widely expresed by others, 
> (with better and worse words) that Debian server admins will not be pleased 
> with an init system which is bigger and does not use shell scripts to start 
> system services. Inconveniences have been stated about binary logs (which has 
> been expressed that it is not true), big binary, tightly related set of 
> binaries, security relying in developers and packagers and not sysadmins, 
> encompassing of not-init-related services, and more.

Once again, I am asking for numbers. I refuse to believe this narrative,
that systemd is somehow (widely viewed as) taylored to the needs of the
desktop on the cost of the needs of a server, no matter how often it is
repeated, unless someone offers some at least rough data on this (for
example the results of a survey, trying to correlate "I administrate
mainly/a lot of servers vs. I administrate mainly laptops" with "I think
systemd is bad for the desktop/server usecase"). Because there has been
a lot of testaments towards the benefit of systemd for servers too and
that totally fits my own impressions. I couldn't care less for it's use
in a DE, I don't use a DE. What I *do* care about is it's use in
servers, which I view as the *main* beneficiaries of systemd.

So please, before we keep rehashing this narrative and letting it become
widely believed (and thus self-fulfilling): Show me some
data. Anything (Okay, not anything. Quoting for example number of
mailing-list posts or reddit/SO-answers is *not* good data).

The question about what use-cases our users care about only matters, if
we accept this underlying assumption, that systemd is good for one but
actively bad for the other.

Oh and of course: meh. systemd-flamewar. *Exactly* what we need…

Best,

Axel Wagner