Re: veto the veto?

[Daniel Pocock <daniel@pocock.pro>]

On 13/11/14 15:25, Matthias Urlichs wrote:
> Hi,
>
> Daniel Pocock:
>> If veto is dead, what would the FTP masters do when somebody decides to
>> upload something before checking it is 100% free?
>>
> That's a different sort of veto. That's what they do, and they've got a
> mandate to do exactly that.
and they do a fine job of it too
>
> The veto we're talking about here is more along the lines of
> * DD A has an idea
> * DD B…Y think it's OK
> * DD Z think it's complete bulls**t and states "I veto this"
> * therefore the idea is not adopted
>
> Ostensibly, this would encourage consensus because, well, we take into
> account not only the stated reasons for Z's veto but also all the other
> semi-rational stuff that comes with Being Human, and talk about it until we
> all arrive at a conclusion we all can live with.
>
> In reality, this will not work. One major reason for this is that the
> evolution of Being Human proceeds in _slightly_ longer timeframes than
> the emergence of e-mail and IRC communication. For confirmation, look at
> any flame war where people write things they would (hopefully) never say to
> the recipient's face. :-/
>

That is a worst case scenario but there is no system of decision making
that doesn't have edge cases

However, I think people are missing the point.  It is not just about
people participating in the decision, it is about revealing the
percentage of people willing to actually execute the action that is
decided upon, do nothing, or execute some other action, such as resigning.

Veto is probably the crudest term to use when looking at such a problem,
even if it is not a perfect solution, it is relevant.

If DD "Z" in your example is a volunteer he/she doesn't have to do
anything if he doesn't like the decision anyway.  Maybe he will even
choose to resign or work on another part of Debian.  Fine, that is what
a voluntary organization is all about.

The current GR process doesn't show how many people will end up in such
situations.  In fact, they are hidden from view unless you go looking
through all the posts on debian-devel to see if they have shown their
hand.  If veto is a no go (if you'll excuse the pun), are there other
ways that we can quantitatively and concisely let people reveal how they
will or won't act in relation to a certain choice or decision?