Re: piece of mind (Re: Moderated posts?)
Matthias Urlichs wrote:
Judging by the last couple of months, the rest appears to number <6 people.
A lot more than that, by my count.
Then the question is why almost all of these "lot more" people did not
second the GR proposal.
Well... as a couple of people have now pointed out, at least some people
didn't know about it.
In reading through the archives, I have to say that the GR proposal was
both buried in all the broader discussion of systemd, rather long and
convoluted reading, and not well publicized.
I do wonder what would happen if a clearly worded proposal (e.g., start
with "maintain systemv init as the default system" or "require that
packages not depend on systemd running as PID1") were well publicized,
Those who are most impacted are sys admins of servers, and upstream
developers - the two communities most impacted, but that seem to have no say
in the matter.
Correct. So? Debian consists of its members, i.e. people working (in
whatever capacity) on Debian itself. _Using_ a distribution does not
in itself constitute working on it. Neither does work on an Upstream package.
Given a policy that stresses the primacy of users, it disturbs me that
the technical committee and "members" don't seem to be paying any attention.
And... if a platform's technical leadership doesn't care about those who
develop for that platform, that concerns me as well.
If you want to change that and include users and/or Upstream developers in
our constituency more directly, you're free to go ahead and draft/discuss
a GR for that. (I might even support it.)
Given that I have servers to run, and a full-time job that has nothing
to do with that set of responsibilities -- I'm putting my efforts into:
- stretching out the lifetime of my current Debian installations
- looking for a new platform to migrate to
Somehow, neither of these seems like a great investment of time:
- wading through every single dependency that systemd might impact
- politicking (especially as I'm NOT a Debian developer eligible to
propose or vote on GRs) - and this debacle has convinced me it's not
worth becoming one
In any case, users _do_ have a say. They can force their systems to remain
on sys5 init, or switch to a different distro if that should also turn out
to be unsatisfactory. Likewise, upstream developers can refuse to include
unit files or systemd-supporting tidbits (like socket activation) in their
It sure would be interesting to survey folks on this. I expect I'm not
the only one busily looking for an exit.
In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice.
In practice, there is. .... Yogi Berra