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Re: Solutions for the Apache upgrade hell

On Wed, Jul 16, 2014 at 11:36:32AM +0200, Vincent Lefevre wrote:
> On 2014-07-14 08:53:22 +0000, Thorsten Glaser wrote:
> > But I normally use "apt-get --purge dist-upgrade" both to upgrade
> > across distros and to stay within one distro (or sid), because
> > otherwise I get issues:
> > 
> > * Running upgrade before dist-upgrade sometimes doesn't get the
> >   dependencies right

Revolutionary idea: Report a bug, so that it can be worked out as this
is how thousands of users who are capable of reading release notes will
upgrade and you don't want them to run into the same problems you ran
into, do you? Bonuspoints if you can fix it on way or the other, too.

> > * Running dist-upgrade without --purge will keep packages in 'rc'
> >   state around, which a later APT call will not even recognise;
> >   you need to manually "dpkg --purge pkg1 pkg2 ..." to get rid
> >   of them

Looks like your upgrade process isn't working as you expect, as you are
still stuck with oldoldstable…

> I do that too. I haven't seen any official documentation saying that
> this is a bad thing to do.

aptitude actively warns against it as highlighted in this thread.
Official documentation also doesn't say that running 'rm -rf
--no-preserve-root /' is a bad thing, but you seem to not run it anyway.
In fact, official documentation says exactly how you should perform an
upgrade, so it says you at least what is a good thing and you can
predict from that that other ways may be less good.

> Purging packages in 'rc' state later is not really an option, as I
> sometimes want to keep the config files of some particular packages
> that have been removed... unless APT can differentiate packages that
> have manually been removed and those that have automatically been
> removed during a dist-upgrade.

I don't understand. apt isn't going on a configuration file killing
spree if you don't tell it to do that (and I am not sure how I would
tell it to do that even if I wanted it…), but well, no, there is no
difference between a package being removed with 'remove' and a package
being removed thanks to dependencies (like Conflicts) as this is rather
arbitrary difference. Installing a different MTA is probably as much
a sentient decision as removing an MTA - and you have agreed to all
these actions, so they have your official blessing…

apt-get btw doesn't do an automatic remove in dist-upgrade by default,
so none of the removes you see are in fact any more "automatic" than the
installation of new packages - it is simply needed and part of the job
description of a package manager. We have a "apt-get autoremove" for
removing packages apt things might not be needed anymore. aptitude does
run it by default.

Best regards

David Kalnischkies

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