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Re: so, systemd now and teh world still turns...

On Wed, 4 Jun 2014 13:10:19 +0200, Holger Levsen:
> No, piuparts tests packages. And if it package is buggy it wont test packages 
> which depend on this buggy package as it's very hard to decide where the kind 
> of buggyness piuparts detects comes from.

So in order for task-xfce-desktop to get tested, we could do:

> apt-get install --no-install-recommends task-xfce-desktop
> [...]
> The following NEW packages will be installed:

And then make sure all packages listed there (244 currently) have no
piuparts bugs?  And those would be listed here?

[warning: big file]

> Are you implying that I could be telling lies because I was brainwashed by the 
> systemd tentacles?

No nooo, I meant two things:

1. assuming good faith:  I don't expect you'd say something like
"currently all major desktops in jessie ... depend on 'systemd-sysv'"
if you knew it wasn't true;  that you were mistaken otherwise

2. systemd tentacles not in your head, but appearing as a dependency in
an increasing amount of packages;  metaphor, scary monster you can't run
away from

> Many years ago there was this cabal conspirancy in Debian, 
> it seems a bit like some cabal conspirancy is back: the systemd cabal, 
> secretly or not so secretly ruling and dictating the linux^wunix world. "Stand 
> up before its too late." - this really explains a lot of the traffic. 

It's quite fundamental that in free/libre open source you can prefer
certain software and avoid others, and the reasons are left totally up
to the user:  technical, political, ethical?

Debian is very accommodating of this by packaging software into smaller
interchangeable pieces.  That way whole alternate desktops are
available, almost seamless alternate choice of text editors, MTAs, MUAs,
browsers, webservers, compilers and nowadays even kernel.

systemd is different because *if* you have issues with it, it's really
difficult to avoid.  It's not a simple apt-get remove any more, which
leaves either heroic efforts or whining about it as the only options.

Anyway, I didn't want to get too much into that subject (again)...

> Sure (thats a nice thing). But that wasnt really my question: is xfswitch-
> plugin considered to be part of XFCE? IOW: is XFCE without that package 
> working, but with less features than one would expect from XFCE?

> XFCE without mutt is XFCE as it was intended. XFCE without this plugin?

That suggests a very broad interpretation of "depend on 'systemd-sysv'".

Either way I think it's fairly clear that xfswitch-plugin is not
officially part of XFCE:

Package: xfce4-goodies (4.10)
Synopsis: enhancements for the Xfce4 Desktop Environment
> The "Goodies for Xfce" project includes additional software and
> artwork that are related to the Xfce desktop, but not part of the
> official release.
> [...]
> Some packages are only suggested because they bring too much
> dependencies, but you may find them interesting:
>   * Fast-user switching plugin (xfswitch-plugin)

Steven Chamberlain

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