On Sat, 10 May 2014 18:00:02 +0200, Laurent Bigonville
>Le Sat, 10 May 2014 16:00:39 +0200,
>> Yet: I do think its about high time systemd developers and packagers
>> adopt an attitude of "never break userspace" like the kernel
>> developers do.
>Sure that the attitude "I don't care where the root cause of a problem
>lies", opening 3 different bugs against 3 different packages for the
>same issue and then complain publicly that the bug is not fixed is good
>May I remind you that everybody in Debian is working as a volunteer and
>that we have limited time and motivation and that this kind of
>continuous ranting is not helping.
Here is it again, the thought-terminating cliche of the volunteer. If
you voluntarily break things, you voluntarily fix them. If you don't
have time to fix your breakage, don't cause it.
>> The plain fact:
>> Using systemd breaks something that worked for probably a decade or
>> longer before however long that su is in that init script. So on what
>> account do you call calling "su" in an init script a bug? It may not
>> be the most elegant solution to do things, granted, but a bug? Come
>> on. Calling it a bug just cause systemd / policykit treat calling su
>> in an initscript as they do is quite arrogant in my eyes.
>IMVHO opening a PAM session in an initscript is a bad idea from day
>one, as you don't know which modules are being called, as it can create
>bogus audit trails or cause other subtile issues.
Just curious as the maintainer of another package using su in an init
script since 2001, how am I supposed to start a non-root process from
an init script?
>> Thats it.
>I personally think that systemd team (of which I'm NOT part) is already
>doing a really good work to fix integration issues, they are already
>providing patches or .services for main packages but they cannot fix
No doubt they do, but in the few prominent cases they don't, they're
not helping their agenda by acting publicly the way they do. I really
like the idea of systemd and am happily willing to take the pain the
transition may cause, but I have already reached the state where I
refrain from bug reports against systemd because being told "go away"
in an impolite way is not good for my health.
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