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Re: let's split the systemd binary package



On Fri, Oct 25, 2013 at 09:39:03AM -0400, Paul Tagliamonte wrote:
> Hi there, Olav, thanks for contributing to the discussion,
> 
> On Fri, Oct 25, 2013 at 01:40:55PM +0200, Olav Vitters wrote:
> > I don't see this happening, at all. When the GNOME release team is asked
> > for a solution we make *concrete* decisions: use X, or Y or maybe try
> > and support both. If you want to influence these decisions, I want
> > something more than to a choice between something greatly supported
> > (logind) vs something abandoned (ConsoleKit).
> 
> So, I have a mild problem with framing the problem this way, when the
> systemd maintainers position (which is perfectly fair) is:
> 
> from Tollef Fog Heen <tfheen@err.no> (m261smjxwi.fsf@rahvafeir.err.no)
> > I'm not aware of it being argued anywhere that you can pick and choose random
> > components and they would work fine with any other init system.
> 
> This means by adopting logind, we should switch init over to systemd,
> otherwise a major package is using another major package in an
> unsupported configuration (or at least in a way that the maintainer
> doesn't wish to support)
> 
> 
> Since the project (on the whole) is fairly divided, I don't think we
> should trivialize this to "actively developed" vs "cruft" at this stage.

It is not what I mean, I mean that if you take a decision, take into
account what it implicates. You cannot just hope for the best deal with
it at a later stage.

I like systemd, it is supported. At the same time I like *BSD. More
systemd usage means less *BSD. I see what's happening, I want GNOME to
be on *BSD.

Totally different example to hopefully make it clear what I mean:
A person suffered a heart attack at work, requiring an AED. The AED +
resuscitation saved his life. Our existing AEDs at work are working
fine. However, an AED also logs a lot of things, but our AEDs are too
old that the ambulance personnel can read these AEDs (open hardware
would be really nice). So we wanted to replace the existing ones
(despite working perfectly fine). At the same time, maybe put more AEDs,
but that means extra cost. One of the first questions that I got
regarding the cost: "will we have a support contract / who will maintain
it". Meaning: It is unacceptable to just have an extra AED. It needs to
work, someone needs to check if it is working every so often. Just
buying something is nice, it will probably also work for a while. But
eventually something will happen and it won't work. Just assuming it'll
be ok might be ok in some cases, but that part is somewhat
critical/important, you better think about it.

I'm not advocating to use systemd because ConsoleKit is unmaintained,
I'm saying that whatever is decided, if you decide, don't forget to
actually take up ConsoleKit maintainership if you decide to rely on it.

If all kinds of alternatives are created + maintained for systemd
(pretty please with same API), then cool, more *BSD!

-- 
Regards,
Olav


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