On Thu, May 23, 2013 at 09:55:41AM +0200, John Paul Adrian Glaubitz wrote:
> > don't post things which
> >have already been debunked as well. You are doing the very same thing
> >that you are complaining about: I already posted in this list the git
> >log stats, and Lennart owns more than 40% of all the commits. So no,
> >Lennart is not just *one* of the systemd developers, he's the main one,
> >and by far.
> You didn't debunk anything, you're interpreting statements wrong and
> obviously don't know your math. Please re-read what I said, which
> is
> > "As you may know, systemd is developed by a large amount of
> contributors"
> How on earth does that contradict with the fact that 40%, i.e.
> the minority of all contributions are done by the original
> author. 40% still means that 60% of the code comes from other
> people and those are 145 contributors according to ohloh [1].
> So, yeah, systemd is definitely the project which has the
> largest amount of contributors which was exactly my point.
The problem isn't that your statements are false, it's that they're twisted
propaganda. A large number of contributors to an *init system* is not
something that should be a goal in and of itself. There's a certain level
of sustainability that we should be concerned about meeting; but that
doesn't require a community of hundreds of committers. Feel free to check
how many committers sysvinit has had over the past decade - we're pushing to
move away from sysvinit not because it didn't have enough committers, but
because we believe a new architecture is needed.
Furthermore, the statistics for systemd are themselves a distortion. The
only reason Lennart shows up as being responsible for a minority of the code
in systemd is because systemd gobbled up udev whole. If we look at line
count rather than number of commits (which I would argue is a better
measure), and exclude the udev code, we get:
$ find . -name '*.c'|grep -v udev | xargs -n1 git blame --line-porcelain \
| sed -n 's/^author //p' | sort | uniq -c | sort -rn | head -n1
120124 Lennart Poettering
$ find . -name '*.c'|grep -v udev | xargs wc -l | tail -n1
153404 total
$
And even then, that includes dbus services and other things not related to
the init daemon.
78% is not a minority. But this isn't the statistic that gets trotted out
by people advocating for systemd; instead, they always cherry-pick the
statistics that paint it in the most favorable light. Because systemd
advocates are not trying to win on technology, they're trying to win on
marketing.
Also worth noting:
~/systemd$ find . -name '*.c' | grep -vE 'tests|test/|intl/|udev/' \
| xargs wc -l | tail -n1
149081 total
$ find . -name '*.c' | grep -vE 'tests|test/|intl/|udev/' | xargs wc -l \
| tail -n1
31282 total
$
Yep, systemd has a larger community of contributors... and weighs in at
nearly 5 times the code base. Which of these is the more important
attribute for an init, I wonder?
Disclaimer: this comparison will catch files that are not part of init.
Feel free to slice and dice this differently to make the case that systemd
init is not bloated... and publish your methodology so we can be sure to
check how many committers that section of the code actually has.
> OpenRC has 19 [2], upstart has even only 7 [3] contributors.
> > [1] http://www.ohloh.net/p/systemd
> > [2] http://www.ohloh.net/p/openrc
> > [3] http://www.ohloh.net/p/upstart
Ohloh statistics are of dubious value. Counting contributors to upstart
using a more direct method shows me 17 committers - small but not miniscule,
and not a mark of an unsustainable project. I'm not going to bother
generating stats showing who's contributed how many lines to this, because I
don't think that's actually the useful metric - I just object to people
claiming this high ground for systemd when it's not materially true. Feel
free to run these stats yourself if you wish.
--
Steve Langasek Give me a lever long enough and a Free OS
Debian Developer to set it on, and I can move the world.
Ubuntu Developer http://www.debian.org/
slangasek@ubuntu.com vorlon@debian.org
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