Re: 2013 sometimes still feels like 2003 or 1993 (Re: NEW processing during freezes
On Fri, May 03, 2013 at 07:11:35PM +0200, Bernhard R. Link wrote:
> * Holger Levsen <email@example.com> [130502 12:28]:
> > > People do this all the time: upload packages built against local packages,
> > > experimental or even on Ubuntu to Debian sid.
> > /me shivers. This hurts. There is no reason not to rebuild in sane
> > environments. Can we please fix this for the next release?!
> I'm not sure the cure is not worse than the problem.
> Apart from the big problem of making it even easier for people to
> upload trash without testing it (both wasting buildd resources and
> lettings users install broken packages which any trivial testing would
> have catched, from which I've seen far too many), reducing the
> buildability of packages is a cruical problem for freedom.
Having to upload binary debs is not preventing that.
> If we step towards rebuilding everything in a highly artifical
> environment, it should be made clear that a package having missing
> build-conflicts or any other bug preventing it from being built on
> a real system should still be important bugs afterwards.
> Once we drop that and only give people the right to modify the
> software we distribute but no longer the possiblity to do so
> on their own, the "Free" we are so proud on gets mood.
How does always building in a clean chroot impact the freedom in any
way? The build tools are free and any user can set up their own clean
chroot to build the source. So even if Build-Conflicts were to bit-rot
completly I don't see how that affects freedom in any way.
> Also build systems tend to degrade quite heavily over time and
> get more and more specific. In some years we might not be able
> to switch to some other builder tools as too many packages depend
> on the specifics of the ones we currently have.
I don't see how that can be true. We have been using sbuild for ages
and we have pbuilder and other alternatives working just as well. I
don't see any degradation and reliance on sbuild hapening so far.
And mainatiners will still be expected to build and test their
packages at home, which tend to not to use sbuild. So I think the fear
that sources will rely on specific sbuild behaviour is unfounded.