Re: Really, ...
John Paul Adrian Glaubitz <firstname.lastname@example.org> writes:
> On Thu, Nov 29, 2012 at 03:34:08PM -0800, Russ Allbery wrote:
>> At this point, the single most annoying thing about systemd is the
>> people who are advocating it on debian-devel at every opportunity and
>> seem incapable of shutting up about it for more than a week, even
>> though the repeated conversations are both useless to the project as a
>> whole and don't vary with repetition.
> And for me, the most annoying thing is the neverending circlejerk of
> systemd bashing on a non-technical basis.
This is something that you're all (collectively) enabling via your
behavior of constantly repeating the same arguments. Someone has to stop.
Preferrably everyone at once.
> If anyone of these people would really take the time to read into the
> design rationales of the available init systems (upstart, systemd,
> sysvinit, openrc), look at the popularity and the amount of
> contributors, the decision would be far easier to make.
This is the key point: WE ARE NOT GOING TO MAKE A DECISION RIGHT NOW. We
simply are not. It doesn't matter how many messages you write to
debian-devel, what arguments you muster, and what evidence you have: this
decision will not be made right at this moment, in the middle of a release
freeze, prior to completing the Policy work for even testing a migration
It's absolutely impossible that any firm decision will be made at any time
before the wheezy release is complete. I think it's rather unlikely until
we have a clear policy for how people should add systemd support in their
packages and those package maintainers who chose to do so have started to
enable it. (I think we're actually fairly close to such a policy, but
it's not formalized yet.)
Therefore, every time you continue to argue about this on debian-devel,
the *only* thing that you are accomplishing is to feed what you accurately
describe as a never-ending circlejerk, by providing it with more material,
more ammunition, more fodder for the discussion to continue and continue
This is all equally true of the people who hate systemd.
It would also be true of the people who advocate upstart or OpenRC, except
you'll notice that they've largely stopped discussing the topic except
when they can't stop themselves from rebutting some specific technical
point. That's wise. It's worthy of emulation.
Please, let's *stop talking about this*, apart from the much more
specific, straightforward, and *useful* discussion of what further work is
required to enable those who wish to do so to run systemd as their init
process in Debian.
Russ Allbery (email@example.com) <http://www.eyrie.org/~eagle/>