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Re: Really, ...

On Thu, Nov 29, 2012 at 03:43:48PM -0800, Russ Allbery wrote: 
> The people who repeatedly advocate systemd on debian-devel are not
> representative of the whole development community.  I suspect most of them
> aren't even *part* of the systemd development community.

No. But I am using systemd both at home and work now and it solved
many headaches I had before. I don't have to worry about messing with
/etc/default anymore to enable/disable daemons, I don't even have to
worry how to do that when using a different distribution. It works the
same on Fedora, Arch, Debian, openSuSE, every distribution that uses

I also don't have to worry about daemons dying unsupervised daemons,
not noticing it until someone knocks at the door of the IT department
to complain. Gone are the headaches we had with autofs only working
70% of the time or the /home NFS simply not being mounted on some
machines after startup.

I can quickly figure out why my system takes longer than usual too
boot and I will immediately see when and why daemon xyz was restarted.

Seriously, this is not based on religion, this is based purely on
technical merits and good experiences with systemd.

> Rather, this is
> all further sign of a particular social problem in free software, namely
> the tendency to attach oneself to projects (whether that be vim vs. Emacs,
> GNOME vs. KDE, or systemd vs. upstart) as if they were sports teams, and
> then start behaving with all the public composure and mutual understanding
> of drunk football fans.

Yes, there are these wars on actual software applications and these
will definetely never stop, simply because the choice of a preferred
editor or desktop is highly subjective.

As for stuff in the plumberland, you don't see it most of the time,
you just want it to be there and work reliably.

And the concept and design of systemd has been already proven to be
very reliable. Apple switched to the design (launchd) in 2004 in MacOS
X and successfully uses it on any iOS device (iPhone, iPad, iPod
touch) they're shipping. I never heard of any problems with regard to

> Let's try to avoid that on *all* sides.  It's just software.  And software
> changes over time, and sometimes becomes much better (or much worse) than
> it is right now.  It also forks and remerges, and the development
> community often changes radically.  See, for example, glibc.

Absolutely true. And this is actually why I don't understand so many
people get so emotional when it comes to software like systemd or

> This is, btw, *exactly* why I personally tend to switch desktop
> environments every couple of years.  It's a lot easier to not villify a
> whole project when one has used it for a bit and can see that it has
> pluses and minuses, just like everything else.

I rather do that because I get bored from time to time, want to help
find bugs in other desktops or I simply want to explore new stuff, to
make sure I still have the best experience I can get.


 .''`.  John Paul Adrian Glaubitz
: :' :  Debian Developer - glaubitz@debian.org
`. `'   Freie Universitaet Berlin - glaubitz@physik.fu-berlin.de
  `-    GPG: 62FF 8A75 84E0 2956 9546  0006 7426 3B37 F5B5 F913

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