Re: On init in Debian

[Tollef Fog Heen <tfheen@err.no>]

]] Samuel Thibault 

> Tollef Fog Heen, le Thu 22 Mar 2012 15:47:45 +0100, a écrit :
> > > Stig Sandbeck Mathisen, le Thu 22 Mar 2012 13:35:15 +0100, a écrit :
> > > > Samuel Thibault <sthibault@debian.org> writes:
> > > > 
> > > > > Because the issue at stake might lie in systemd itself, not the unit
> > > > > file.
> > > > 
> > > > And if /bin/sh breaks on an init style system, you can fix it with an
> > > > editor?
> > > 
> > > You can cp a known-to-work-statically-compiled /bin/sh there.
> > 
> > How is this different from copying a known-to-work, statically compiled
> > copy of systemd in?
> 
> What init scripts use from the shell is way less complex than what
> systemd implements, and it's independant from what is needed to achieve
> the boot. You can copy over a woking systemd, fine, your system can
> boot, but you have to debug the issue with the non-working systemd, i.e.
> go back to a non-booting system.

No, you don't.  You can use systemd --test, you can debug by looking at
the logs and the units on the system.  You can do a test boot by
installing the new systemd, then doing:  kvm -m 512 -snapshot -drive
file=/dev/sda or similar.

> When a bug is in the shell and hits the init scripts (I've never seen
> such a bug), you can at least debug that outside of the boot process.

How can you do that if your system doesn't boot?

> > Have you actually tried systemd and run into problems and not filed
> > bugs, or are you just spreading FUD here?
> 
> Call it FUD if you want, but what I believe is true is:

I call it FUD when you are spreading rumours rather than speaking from
experience, yes.  You seem to be making the assumption that you'll spend
lots of time debugging systemd itself rather than debugging units, this
in contrast with shell scripts where you spend most of the time
debugging the shell scripts rather than the shell.

I really hope that we're able to have good enough tools that you can use
the tools much more than you're debugging them, and I think that's
generally true for the software in Debian, and I see no reason for
systemd to be particularly different in that regard.

-- 
Tollef Fog Heen
UNIX is user friendly, it's just picky about who its friends are