[Date Prev][Date Next] [Thread Prev][Thread Next] [Date Index] [Thread Index]

Re: network-manager as default? No! (was: Bits from the Release Team - Kicking off Wheezy)

Zitat von Stanislav Maslovski <stanislav.maslovski@gmail.com>:

On Wed, Apr 06, 2011 at 10:51:08PM +0200, Hendrik Sattler wrote:
Am Mittwoch 06 April 2011, 19:05:11 schrieb Stanislav Maslovski:
> > On Wed, Apr 06, 2011 at 07:29:05AM +0200, Josselin Mouette wrote:
> > > Then you can stack all soft of stuff on top of it, and get them to
> > > work manually for your specific setup, and since it’s not event-based
>                                                      ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> > > you have to hard-code the way your network is set up.
>                 ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> The underlined claims, btw, are also false.

You made clear that you think of yourself as the ultimate master of ifupdown.
So what? That tells us _nothing_ about the rest of the world...

First of all, that is only your interpretation which is wrong. Second,
there is no point in turning a discussion about ifupdown vs. NM into a
discussion of my abilities/disabilities.

I am also not totally happy about network-manager but I still use it as it gives me a working wireless network on my laptop without having to spend hours reading endless documentation and writing multiple configuration files (hey, just for the purpose of getting _one_ network device running at two different locations!). Been there, done that for quite some time, with wired and wireless networking, analog/2G/3G modem and ISDN dialup. It was always a pain to setup and working if not too much goes wrong. Still I was switching to network-manager once available as for me it's not painless but much less pain.

I remember one difficult case: my university was using cisco equipment to do the VPN. So I used vpnc to connect. How do you tell ifupdown to only start vpnc once wpa_supplicant made the connection to a specific network? Additionally, they used a different SSID for each AP, so no roaming but manual selection. That was a nightmare to setup as you had to have one entry for each AP! Additionally, wpa_supplicant was only working when the interface was not down, I had to manually figure that out to add a proper pre-up entry line. Yummy.

I currently use ifupdown only for a 3G connection but only because the integration of plasma-widget-networkmanagement with network-manager's use of modemmanager is not working (already solved upstream according to the developers blog but not in Debian). So I am using pon/poff for that. However, the example gprs chat script for PIN entry is not correct (not even according to the applicable standard and my modem happens to take that part very strictly). I am currently using another solution to correctly enter the PIN code (a program that I wrote years ago happens to do that). Believe it or not but modemmanager would have been my preferred solution. No, I didn't file a bug about that, not until I found a working solution for that chat script.

The network-manager solution still suffers from lots of bugs e.g. the KDE applet not being able to reconnect to network-manager after an upgrade of the latter, or a capable CLI solution (cnetworkmanager cannot do everything, nothing useful is shipped with network-manager).

I am with you that ifupdown should always be available as fallback but it's not _my_ preferred solution for a desktop. It's ok that some like to read hundreds of lines to setup something that should be a no-brainer, I don't. For a server, ifupdown is preferrable but there, even a simple shell script would always be sufficient!


PS: You are missing one important thing from your wpa-roam snippets: you really should restrict each SSID entry to the MAC address of the AP.

Reply to: