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Re: New source package formats now available

Gerfried Fuchs <rhonda@deb.at> writes:

> * Goswin von Brederlow <goswin-v-b@web.de> [2009-11-23 09:48:36 CET]:
>> Why do you think that? I can split patches any which way and edit the
>> debian/patches/series to match all completly without quilt.
>  How so? I don't find anything in man dpkg or dpkg-source that would
> help with that.

In the section about 3.0 (quilt) the section in Extracting says:

   All patches listed in debian/patches/debian.series or
   debian/patches/series are then applied.

And in Building it says "following the same logic as for the unpack"
and explains a bit more.

Nowhere does it say you can not split, merge, edit patches or the
series file to your likeing.

>> It only becomes simpler with quilt and you would always have it
>> installed. A 3.0 (native) + quilt package would force people to use
>> quilt and result in build failures for anyone missing the fact you use
>> quilt manually instead of 3.0 (quilt) format. There really is no
>> advantage in that.
>  ?! What build failures? Can you please elaborate on why would you see
> build failures down that path, anywhere?! There's the advantage in it
> that people actually *do* have quilt installed to work properly with the
> (implied) quilt patches instead of maybe having it not around and still
> are expected to work on the patches.

You unpack the source, edit some file and try to build. Suddenly quilt
fails to apply patches.

Or you unpack, build the package once to check the debian source still
builds cleanly, edit some file and then clean fails to unapply

Or you know the package uses quilt and you use it. But, since you are
new to quilt, you forget to "quilt add file" before editing and then
you don't know how to fix that again.

Note that with 3.0 (quilt) people are not required to work on the
patches and for an NMU I'm not sure what is better: A change in an
existing patch or a small additional patch on top.

>> >  It is causing troubles for people that are familiar with quilt and
>> > think they will be able to work with quilt with the source package when
>> > they dpkg-source -x it - which unfortunately isn't the case. Only when
>> > quilt is installed, but then, this is getting different results
>> > depending on the environment one has, and I thought this was always one
>> > of the big NO-GOs in Debian that we should avoid - and here we have it
>> > even intentional? Sorry that this doesn't make me (and from what I can
>> > see others too) happy  :/
>> And as a quilt using person you often have quilt not installed?
>  This isn't about me or you but about NMUing people or others you want
> to have working on the package. And the question is trying to distract
> from the issue and not answering the question, sorry.
>> Worst case you unpack the source again after installing quilt. So far
>> this only happened to me once. Since then I have quilt installed per
>> default in new chroots ment for compiling.
>  Worst case you don't know about it because it is said to not require a
> README.Source anymore and is nowhere really hinted that it will give you
> different results.

As said above. I'm not sure I want them to work on the existing
patches. Esspecially if you have meta infos in them about being send
upstream and so on. It is probably best if an NMUer just gets the
source, edits, builds and sends the automatically created
debian/patches/debian-changes-1.2-3.1 file to the BTS.

>> >  About "you just have to install quilt" - *before* you unpack the
>> > source. If you install it afterwards, you have lost.
>> So you do want a dpkg-source --quiltify-source to fix this post
>> unpacking instead of manually unpacking the source again?
>  I would expect a dpkg-source -x to always result in the same thing, no
> matter wether quilt is installed or not. And when the format claims to
> be (quilt) I expect it to be quilt-ready *by default*. Implementing just
> a subset but calling that subset with the same name is just confusing. :/

Yeah. It annoyed me once and then I added quilt to the list of
packages to be installed in a fresh chroot by default.

How about this solution: dpkg-dev should recommend quilt.
While dpkg-dev works fine without quilt I too believe quilt should
always be installed when 3.0 (quilt) format is supposed to be(come)
the default format. A recommends would install quilt by default but
not require it.

>  So long. :)
> Rhonda

and thanks for all the fish.


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