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Re: Dropping GStreamer 0.8 for etch

Hello Loïc,
On Mon, Dec 11, 2006 at 10:45:16AM +0100, Loïc Minier wrote:
> On Sun, Dec 10, 2006, Helge Kreutzmann wrote:
> >    I could not get rhythmbox to "simply" play CDs.
>  What didn't work?  I made sure this morning that an audio CD still
>  plays fine here, so you might want to report a bug if it doesn't (I
>  "maintain" RB to some extent).

Well, actually it might. But when I started it, it asked me several
questions about music storage and so on, and then I could not find a
"quick" way to simply play a CD. I should have read the manual, yes,
but I assumed that RB was *much more* than audio CD playing, and thus
a little "overkill" for my purpose.

> >                      I could not find a package for gnome-cd, though.
>  It's in gnome-media.  It's really a very simple CD player which aims at
>  doing only CD playing, nothing more nothing less; it wont suffer the
>  comparison against goobox' features.

Ok, I see.

>  IMO, you should compare s-j + rb, and not one of the two with goobox.
>  (CD covers are fetched by RB as well; it features random play, and
>  looping.  It also has "more buttons". :))

In the end, both are probably quite simmilar. But in Debian choice was
always a valuable asset: look at the plethora of editors, for example.
So in essence this boils down to: It scratched my itch (hence I joined
with Daniel to keep it alive when the original maintainer dropped from
the surface of the New Maintainer Queue). I invested some effort in it
to polish it, currently (a little interrupted by this thread, thus no
progress this weekend) I try to find out the reason for a crash on some

If you as the gstreamer maintainer state that you think it is irresponsible 
to ship Etch with a (scaled down)
version of gstreamer-0.8 or if the RMs or the security team think so,
then I guess it has to go, but if possible, I'd like to keep it.

>  Hmm, you're being very defensive here; I understand it's very late in
>  the release cycle (and I've underlined this fact in the initial post),
>  and I'm not sure it will be possible to drop GStreamer 0.8 for etch.

Sorry if that was too defensive, but I already "lost" a package this
year (due to an unfortunate license change by some third party, not
connected to Debian), and maybe I simply don't want to loose another
tool which scratches my itch. 

>  The thread is about *trying* to drop GStreamer 0.8, and examining what
>  uses it (that's why I had a "?" in the subject of this thread :).

Ok, I only skimmed over the early messages, so I probably missed this
distinction and thought this was a final call for objection. Sorry if
that caused confusion.

>    From the short look I took at goobox when I reviewed apps using
>  GStreamer 0.8, it seemed to be dead upstream.  The fact that it's
>  hosted at gnome.org made me wonder whether that will ever change since
>  we have s-j and rb there already.  And there's also the plethora of

Upstream replied that he does not have time ATM to switch to
gstreamer-0.10, but he intends to do so "in a few month", so definitly
post Etch. So maybe you can file a wishlist bug asking for upgrade to
gstreamer-0.10 with the remark, that removing gstreamer-0.8 is a
relase goal for Lenny. Then I have appropriate time to consolidate
patches (there is already such a bug in Ubuntu, for example) and a
clear time line. If upstream switches to gstreamer-0.10 in 2007 it
should make it in time for Lenny :-))

>  other audio playing apps, just to list some based on GStreamer:
>  quodlibet, listen, muine, banshee, totem...  I hope you understand that
>  I'm looking at this from a GStreamer 0.8 maintainer point of view, not
>  from a goobox user point of view.

Yes, of course I see this. It is not the fact I am protesting against,
but the timing and the way. A kind wishlist bug earlier in the release
cycle with some hints and a deadline would have been my request.

>  However, I kindly invite you to consider whether it's worthwhile to
>  continue your efforts with the current goobox release.  I hope you
>  don't mind the unsolicited advice, but I personally see goobox as
>  superseded functionality-wise (especially by other gnome.org software),
>  and bit-rotting (no upstream release in 2006, still using GStreamer
>  0.8); I suppose it's hard to throw away your polishing efforts, perhaps
>  the alternative is for you to become upstream for goobox and update it
>  to GStreamer 0.10.

I don't want to become upstream goobox, and the maintainer is present
(but busy). For the fact that it is hosted on gnome.org I don't know
why, but gnome sure has some rules and regulations (especially for bit
rot). So my plan (after seeing all issues now) is to continue
maintaining goobox into Lenny. If upstream (or a patch submitter) does
not update goobox to gstreamer-0.10 resonably before relase I will
work out an upgrade path to, e.g., sound-juicer, and ask for the
removal of goobox. 

Would that be acceptable to you as gstreamer maintainer and the RMs and
the security team?


      Dr. Helge Kreutzmann                     debian@helgefjell.de
           Dipl.-Phys.                   http://www.helgefjell.de/debian.php
        64bit GNU powered                     gpg signed mail preferred
           Help keep free software "libre": http://www.ffii.de/

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