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Re: debian and UDEV

On Thu, May 18, 2006 at 05:01:53PM +0200, Goswin von Brederlow wrote:

> Now the system randomly doesn't boot and instead of a 10 minute boot
> time you have a 3 hour drive to reset the system and analyse that is
> was just udev screwing you over.

Then introduce a timeout. Create /etc/default/wait_for_device_timeout
and make it a policy that everyone must obey it.

> USB seems to be pretty broken by design. But most hardware is
> not.

But normal users _do_ use broken hw, and they often has no choice. With
the current kernel solution, broken hw presents a much smaller problem
than it would with synchronous discovery.

> Even scsi, while taking some time to scan the bus, will finish in
> a reasonable time.

But I don't want to wait for that. Users are unhappy because Linux
already takes too long to boot.

> Yes, it is a problem with the kernels hotplug implementation. Hotplug
> and udev are just linked together. I'm not blaming the userspace part
> (udev) but the kernel part (hotplug).

Why? Hotplug HW is now commodity, hw components appearing and
disappearing any time (and in parallel) are a fact of life. Generalizing
the concept so that _everything_ is treated as hot-plugged actually
makes things easier since you no longer has to handle two separate

> And that is what I consider broken. I know it is not going to change
> but I pain for all the users (and myself) that will (and already have
> been) get hit by problems caused by it.

Then why not start working on a solution? There are several distros
running udev, surely it would be possible to build a database of common
problems and find solutions?


     MTA SZTAKI Computer and Automation Research Institute
                Hungarian Academy of Sciences

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