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Re: For those who care about stable updates

On 3/10/06, Steve Langasek <vorlon@debian.org> wrote:
> On Thu, Mar 09, 2006 at 10:38:51AM -0300, Gustavo Franco wrote:
> > What's wrong with us ? I just read some messages with a "no Martin,
> > can we revert it?", it seems that the default reply is "ok Martin, see
> > you, thanks.".
> > It's volunteer work, he's free to do whatever he wants and spend his
> > time with more pleasant tasks, but when will we try to solve some of
> > the real problems we have instead going through the easy way that is
> > "ok, who's going to take that task?". It's clear that the new stable
> > maintainer or group will have at least some of the current problems.
> > Don't you care ?
> Which problems?  The problem where they ignore the ftpmaster trying to
> coordinate certain archive changes with the point release to make future
> point releases easier, the problem where they ignore the critical bugs that
> have been filed on the security NMU of sudo that was done with a patch that
> the maintainer disagrees with, the problem where they repeatedly make a very
> public stink whenever they were unable to resolve a conflict with other
> ftp/DSA members...?

Maybe the problem where the ftpmasters failed to communicate their
reasons and even when they're right it seems that they're wrong?!

Please Steve, i don't want to take your time and discuss with you, my
opinion is clear and it would be better if a ftpmaster or ftp
assistant spend some minutes replying Joey here. If it was already
done, i think i missed the message.

> Well, no, those seem to all be problems specific to Joey and his approach to
> the situation.  I don't see any reason at all why we should assume that a
> new SRM will fall victim to the same destructive cycle.  I guess maybe if
> you buy the idea that this is an ftpmaster conspiracy, then you might think
> that any new SRM will have the exact same problems being able to get a point
> release out; but the truth is always more complicated than that.  Joey does
> a lot of great work for Debian, but that doesn't make him a saint; and when
> a group of people are having problems working together as a team, sometimes
> the best answer really is for one of them to move on.

Don't you see that the people that are moving on, are always from the
same side of the discussion (the side that speaks) ? By the way if
Joey isn't a saint (i'm almost sure he isn't), the ftpmasters aren't
too. There's no conspiracy, it's just the way the things and decisions
are handled that isn't always clear, i'm against a yet another formal
procedure but when a Debian developer in a position listed in our
organizational structure page resigns sending a announce criticising
the work of a group listed there too, that group should came with a
response. The "we don't care" approach can't be the default response
IMHO. Isn't it strange that a ftp master or assistant never (or at
least for quite some time) resigned upset by the critics or being
blocked by someone else?

-- stratus

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