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Re: Need for launchpad

On Fri, Jan 13, 2006 at 03:19:09PM +0100, cobaco (aka Bart Cornelis) wrote:
> But at the moment I've seen lots of comments by maintainers saying that in
> most cases it's currently more work to find out if there's any usefull
> bits in the diffs between debian-ubuntu packages, then to do the work
> themselves (for various reasons, which have been mentioned before)

One generally only hears about the problems in these situations.  Someone
who quietly pulls a patch from Ubuntu and goes on with their life doesn't
complain loudly in threads like these, but I see it all the time on
debian-devel-changes.  There are rather few cases where the diffs are truly
hairy, as I've pointed out in previous threads with examples.

> In the mean while Ubuntu proudly calls "ubuntu gives things back", whereas 
> in reality we mostly have a situation of "ubuntu will help debian 
> maintainers that want to take things back"
> -> It's this misrepresentation of where (most of) the initiative lies which
>    pisses people off.

This is only the latest expression of the same general discontent which has
been rehashed again and again on this list.  A year ago it was "Ubuntu
aren't contributing", then "Ubuntu aren't contributing in the right way",
and now "Ubuntu aren't contributing in the way that they say that they are".
Ubuntu hasn't significantly changed its practices; it is only the
accusation which has changed over time.

The trouble is that those expressing this opinion seem to have
misunderstandings about what has actually been said.  They talk about what
is said "proudly", that Ubuntu is "crowing" or "bragging" about "giving
back", that it conceals its Debian roots, etc.  If you read what is written
on the Ubuntu website about the relationship between Ubuntu and Debian, it
doesn't have this kind of tone at all, and certainly doesn't use the kind of
language that many have attributed to Ubuntu in this thread.

Some things that it does say:

- Ubuntu is based on Debian, and what this means in terms of the movement of

- Ubuntu differs from Debian in its philosophy, and how

- The Ubuntu development methodology is different from Debian's, and how

- Ubuntu classifies packages from Debian into different categories, how, and

- Ubuntu's release cycle differs from Debian's, and how

- Ubuntu, unlike many other Debian derivatives, publishes all of its patches
  for Debian's benefit, and on a continuous basis, not only when a release
  is made

- Ubuntu submits fixes for Debian bugs to the Debian BTS including a patch

The information on the page is accurate (or was at the time of its writing;
there seem to be some outdated bits) and much of it has been validated as
such by virtue of being argued about on this very mailing list.

It does not discuss the direct collaboration which takes place between
certain Ubuntu developers and Debian developers who communicate regularly,
though this practice is not uncommon either.

 - mdz

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