Steve Langasek wrote:
On Tue, Aug 09, 2005 at 04:23:55PM -0700, Erik Steffl wrote:well, sometime bugs get all the way to stable, no software is without bugs. What I was talking about is that 'unstable' is pretty much only usable desktopClearly not, or you wouldn't find it necessary to complain about the fact that you currently find it unusable.
come on, don't pretend you don't understand (also, I didn't say I find it unusable, I am mostly trying to figure out what's going on with jackd).
clarification: unstable is _closest_ to usable desktop out of what debian offers.
and it would be really nice if developers wouldn't break it unneccessarily, like jackd seems to be doing right now. I am not complaining about occasional problems (like e.g. x.org upgrade) or really huge efforts like c++ abi change (I think jackd problem is not part of that but I might be mistaken).
Unstable is, first and foremost, the staging ground for the next stable release. If users find it usable for their purposes, more power to them. If not, fixing unstable for them should not take precedence over the actual development processes; those users should be using something else instead, or learning how to coexist with development shake-ups while running unstable.
well, if it's staging ground for the next stable release care should be taken for it to be stable enough to be usable, right? I mean if you cannot install jack then how are you going to develop software that needs jack? Obviously _some_ problems are pretty much impossible to avoid (e..g c++ abi change) but I was talking about the attitude towards _unneccessary_ problems, which is what jackd seems like.
I won't try to suggest here what that other something should be, because I cannot fathom what sort of a desktop user *needs* cutting-edge software. The constantly shifting sand dunes of unstable are precisely what I *wouldn't* look for in a desktop environment that I actually plan to use for productivity.
err.... firefox? thunderbird? open office? hotplug? new kernels with new drivers? new kde or gnome? all of these are under constant development and stable usually has versions that are very outdated (or are not there at all).
there's a LOT of functionality for desktops that gets developed in two or three years it usually takes to release new debian stable. Do you really need examples of HUGE improvements of desktop related software in last two years? Or HW support?
Yes, right at _this_ moment stable is pretty new but in few years it will be obsolete in many aspects again. So please don't argue that unstable is fresh _now_.
erik