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Re: The sarge release disaster - some thoughts

Le Mardi 15 Mars 2005 16:15, Martin Zobel-Helas a écrit :
> I think the real problem within Debian is the lack of communication
> of some people within the project. If the wanna-build admins and/or
> the ftp-masters would have said: "stop, were are still missing ....,
> without it you will not be able to release" everyone would have
> understood.

no, I disagree. this is not *the* problem, but *one of the* problems.
everybody looks at *the* problem, whereas there is many (or some if you 

> Also i hoped the release team and the ftp-masters would have worked
> on the current release instead of planing for the next on. Having all
> these people together sitting in one room working on the current
> release would have been much more prodcutive.

IMHO, they should have done both.

but don't get me wrong. I know people time in debian is free time wibble 
wibble wibble policy wibble wibble wibble ... consitution ... wibble .. 
you can't force me to work !! wibble wibble ...

In fact, there is a lack in the debian constitution. it is ok not beeing 
able to force people to work. after all we (quite) all are volunteer. 
*but* constitution should if not enforce, at least encourage teams to 
communicate. there should be some 'priorities' in the work that we do 
for debian. some are relevant only for some kind of jobs (some tasks 
are not relevant for l10n but for packaging, and some is only for DSA 
e.g.) BUT some are relevant for everybody, and *should* be a duty.

I don't say we should talk about every choice a team did. but every team 
which work has a lot of influence on debian should have a way to make 
some status updates, or some announces, to say 'hello, here is our 
current state'. nothing more.

I agree with you, there is really communication problems (whatever the 
invoked reason is, no communication is evil, period).

btw, I think that before making very huge plans, maybe an exhaustive 
problems that have blocked the sarge release (like Adrian did) *is* the 
way to go.

If you, debian developpers that will read me, want to make a list (and 
not flame around the guilty ftp-master vs the release manager clan, the 
dam cabal, and the DSA bofh or whatever silly things we read about last 
days) and then delegate some teams (not only *one*, 3 to 5 teams of 6-7 
persons each) ponders about those lists, and then present some real 
propositions addressing every issue that were listed .. that would be a 
rich, constructive, and I think effective idea.

but what saddens me is that :
 * it will need that some not so communicative teams ack to recognize
   their internals failures, and talk about them (like said Adrian,
   there is no shame, we all are *human*, thus not perfect)
 * it will need that everybody will believe that all those issues are
   adressable, and that there is no cabal (the reason for the 3-5
   parallele team), that nobody wants to perform a debian takeover, or
   whatever silly thing you may imagine

do we want to act like grownups and make such an internal audit ? or do 
you still prefer flaming ?
·O·  Pierre Habouzit
OOO                                                http://www.madism.org

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