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Re: Bug#283578: ITP: hot-babe -- (abusive?) erotic images in Debian

I have not seen this image thus I do not if I would find it offensive or not. Could someone please upload a .png of it somewhere and post the URL?

My present view is that any packet that carries a strong controversial message in the eyes of a significant portion of the users and which is not directly needed in the core distro should be provided as a separate download. In this case the image but not the utility should come as a separate download.

My motivation for this is that I want Debian to be available to as many people as possible, regardless of their religious, political or other convictions. I'm arguing for the greater good of the Debian project, any person with a serious investment in Debian should do the same.


There is nothing shameful with a naked human body however with porn there is very often a (sometimes subtle but often not) element of degradation and abuse towards females.

Imagine in the same utility an image of a black person beeing beaten by a ku klax klan member, and then imagine some dork defending that image with the 'excuse' that there is nothing wrong with black people in images. Well, obviously it's not the black man as such that carries the message, it's the fact that that he's beeing beaten up (on basis of his race).

It's the same with porn, it's not a naked female as such that is unmoral or bad, it's the systematic degradation and abuse of women that is bad. So stop justifying porn based on "it's nothing wrong with a naked women" because this issue is totally beside the point.

Unfortunately such degradation/abuse/exploitation is so omnipresent in porn today that a lot of people have started to consider it to be a part of the conceptual definition of pornography or even "erotical material". Hence the hard call is of course to determine whether this particular image depicts any form of degradation/abuse/exploitation.

I'm not advocating a limitation on the freedom of speech though, neither am I saying that nudity is an unmoral thing per se. I believe that it's necessary to depict/discuss/describe even 'bad' things such as brutal violence, exploitation, rape and war in a non-sugarcoated form. The problem is typically the context, when an image depicting rape is presented as entertainment I strongly oppose it.

Binding the 'this is bad'-sign to the bad stuff is really where soceity as a whole is learning, this is where we set the standard for ourselves.

Finally, I would like to commend Michelle Konzack for standing up on this issue. Debian should never promote degradation/abuse/exploitation, in any form, of females (or males or blacks or whites or whatever).

That's my two cents.

Martin Olsson

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