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Re: Use of automake & friends vs. just running configure



On Tue, 2004-09-07 at 21:09 +0200, Francesco Paolo Lovergine wrote:

> On Tue, Sep 07, 2004 at 07:36:07PM +0100, Scott James Remnant wrote:
> > On Tue, 2004-09-07 at 16:31 +0200, Francesco P. Lovergine wrote:
> > 
> > > Convincing upstreams to use AM_MAINTAINER_MODE macro with automake helps.
> > > 
> > That would be wrong.
> > 
> End users do not change Makefile.am or any other file like that, because
> they are indeed end users, not developers.
*snip*
> Any developer with a minimum of brain in its head knows
> --enable-maintainer-mode and knows how to change properly things in
> autotools scripts. 
> 
So when a user does, for whatever reason, end up changing Makefile.am
(they might be applying a patch, or just muddling about) they *don't*
have this developer knowledge so wouldn't get a dependable build.

That's why it's a bad default, it optimises for intelligence rather than
stupidity and there's rather more of the latter in the world :-(

To quote from the Automake documentation:

	Several years ago François Pinard pointed out several arguments
	against `AM_MAINTAINER_MODE'.  Most of them relate to
	insecurity.  By removing dependencies you get non-dependable
	builds: change to sources files can have no effect on generated
	files and this can be very confusing when unnoticed.  He adds
	that security shouldn't be reserved to maintainers (what `--
	enable-maintainer-mode' suggests), on the contrary.  If one user
	has to modify a `Makefile.am', then either `Makefile.in' should
	be updated or a warning should be output (this is what Automake
	uses `missing' for) but the last thing you want is that nothing
	happens and the user doesn't notice it (this is what happens
	when rebuild rules are disabled by `AM_MAINTAINER_MODE').

There is a good suggestion that AM_MAINTAINER_MODE should be built-in,
but with the defaults *reversed*, so that those developers with brains
in their heads can --disable-maintainer-mode if they want.

> Instead they are confused and upset by cryptical errors of autotools, 
> when new versions are not backcompatible as often (if not always)
> 
Which recent (let's say the last 5 years) versions haven't been
backwards compatible?  If you've got an example, I'd like to see it so
we can get a test case and fix that bug.

Scott
-- 
Have you ever, ever felt like this?
Had strange things happen?  Are you going round the twist?

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