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Re: Future of X packages in Debian

On Mon, Jul 05, 2004 at 07:36:42PM -0500, Branden Robinson wrote:
> On Fri, Jul 02, 2004 at 01:44:28AM +1000, Daniel Stone wrote:
> > So call the group of people who can upload X something else.
> ...same thing they're called for all other group-maintained packages.  For
> example, for the xfree86 source package itself:
> $ grep Uploaders debian/control
> Uploaders: Branden Robinson <branden@debian.org>, Fabio M. Di Nitto <fabbione@fabbione.net>
> > The XSF to me is meaningless as a concept
> I reckon it is not reasonable to expect you to cooperatively participate in
> that which you consider meaningless.

My energies are focussed otherwise, and have been for some time. This
has been in no small part due to the fact that I have been funded to
work on upstream, but make of that what you will.

> > and the really important X group are the gatekeepers to Debian
> Maybe that's just the group that is the sine qua non for you.  I personally
> consider those who assist with bug triage, prepare patches, and test patches
> that Fabio and I can't test (because, e.g., we lack the hardware) to perform
> pretty damn important services.  I'm sorry you disagree.

sine qua non? You'll have to excuse me - I only speak English
and Indonesian. And I hope we can agree to disagree.

Based on your arguments, I also think upstream are worthless; I hope I
have a lot more self-esteem than that.

> > The reality is that you guys make decisions -- good or bad -- and have
> > the final say on what hits Debian, as it stands. This is not necessarily
> > a bad thing, but it's far away from the Utopia you paint where everyone
> > can do everything.
> Where is this "Utopia" painted, and who painted it?  Do you care to cite
> some supporting references for this bread-and-circuses rhetoric?

Read the mails I'm replying to.

> > I cannot contribute effectively, and I also feel that I cannot work
> > within the XSF, while the SABDFL
> What's the SABDFL, and what does it stand for?  I deduce from context that
> it's a reference to me.

Self-Appointed Benevolent Dictator For Life. For example, Linus is the
original BDFL, I suppose (I don't know who coined the term), and Guido
is Python's BDFL.

> > continues to feel he cannot work with me, and very rarely communicates
> > with me.
> I will communicate with you on public mailing lists -- only.

Your choice, but a) this was never made clear to me; there was only
radio silence when I attempted to seek your help while making 4.3, and
b) I do not feel this is conducive to productive work.

> > I have been actively removed from the DUX,
> You were never in the Uploaders field of xfree86 package.  You uploaded
> anyway, and did not follow the NMU procedure.  Furthermore, you did this
> deliberately and in full knowledge that you were breaching procedure.

My Subversion commit priviliges were revoked. Twice.

> > and thus from X maintainence.
> There's a lot more to package maintenance than the act of uploading to the
> Debian archive server or one of the upload queues.

I understand, but I was asked to stop fiddling the bug list a while ago,
if I recall correctly. Between this and the XSF's current penchant for a
certain dead monolithic tree, it is fundamentally uninteresting to me.

> > That's why I can't contribute.
> It appears to me that you largely *refuse* to contribute, until and unless
> you have sanctioned upload privileges.

Currently, I do not contrinbute to the XSF, because a) my attention is
focussed very much elsewhere (read: my job), b) I don't think you
honestly feel you can work with me, and I don't feel that I can work
effectively with you as a result, and c) I have a gut feeling that any
work I may contribute (mainly moves to modular trees) will be discarded.

Or, I fear (perhaps not unreasonably) that a single error-in-judgement
misstep will cause you to suspend all Subversion access and declare me
the new XFree86 maintainer.

Daniel Stone                                                <daniels@debian.org>
Debian: the universal operating system                     http://www.debian.org

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